thegman
Veteran
A fine idea, but... the R3A is a gateway camera and will only lead you to Leica lust. Save time and go straight for the M4.
When I got my ZI, I started thinking about a Leica MP, but it soon faded when I realized how precious I would be over it, and would probably never take it anywhere where it could possibly come to harm.
I'm still a little precious over the ZI, but less as time goes on. Now I don't think about resale etc. just where I can go to shoot.
R3A was on my shortlist, I had a feel in a shop, seems very nice. I'd go with the electronic shutter over the mechanical, just for Aperture Prioroty. Batteries are tiny, so it's easy to take one with you, and it's probably every bit as reliable as a mechanical.
alexnotalex
Well-known
the 1:1 rangefinder is a serious advantage imho!
Do it, post your old stuff to classifieds and then post some shots!
You can sell it back again in a couple of years on RFF if you don't like it.
best,
Do it, post your old stuff to classifieds and then post some shots!
You can sell it back again in a couple of years on RFF if you don't like it.
best,
Disrespective
Member
Thanks for the opinions everyone.
My shortlist for bodies are the R3A or the Zeiss Ikon. Lenses are another matter. If i went for the ZI i'd be getting less glass thanks to the higher body cost, but have read some nice things about it so i'm in two minds.
I think i'll put some kit up for sale and see what bites i can get. With luck there is some interest here in NZ so I can get some nice quick sales.
My shortlist for bodies are the R3A or the Zeiss Ikon. Lenses are another matter. If i went for the ZI i'd be getting less glass thanks to the higher body cost, but have read some nice things about it so i'm in two minds.
I think i'll put some kit up for sale and see what bites i can get. With luck there is some interest here in NZ so I can get some nice quick sales.
sanmich
Veteran
I would never be with ONE camera only.
cameras break, need a repair, need to be checked, are stolen etc.
and then you are a cameraless person.
Certainly if you consider the Ikon too, it means that you have some slack.
I would always keep one or two reliable backups with good glass, that I like to use, in case of...
Just my 2 paranoid cents
cameras break, need a repair, need to be checked, are stolen etc.
and then you are a cameraless person.
Certainly if you consider the Ikon too, it means that you have some slack.
I would always keep one or two reliable backups with good glass, that I like to use, in case of...
Just my 2 paranoid cents
chris00nj
Young Luddite
I don't think its wrong at all. Better to have one camera that you enjoy then several that you don't. The Bessa R3a is a very nice camera. I just got it last week.
The no-battery thing isn't too much of an issue. I just have to remember to keep spare batteries. I have a set in my camera case and it stays there.
The no-battery thing isn't too much of an issue. I just have to remember to keep spare batteries. I have a set in my camera case and it stays there.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
I'd save for an M4 as was mentioned earlier.
Similarly though, I'm selling most of my stuff to save for an M9, but still keeping my M4, that's how good it is.
Phil Forrest
Similarly though, I'm selling most of my stuff to save for an M9, but still keeping my M4, that's how good it is.
Phil Forrest
feenej
Well-known
I'd keep one of your small RFs if I was you. Like for a backup, or taking into clubs, or for when you might get mugged, or when there is risk that your camera might get stolen etc.
wgerrard
Veteran
It's strange. I like the way my M2 feels and operates more than the Bessa. But, compared point to point, and forgetting about the Leica mystique, the Bessa wins: Lighter, easier to carry, brighter viewfinder, easier film loading, built-in meter.
Film rewinding on the Bessa can be a pain. Dunno if they're all like that or if mine is just stubborn.
Ducky
Well-known
Is it wrong to want to sell all my cameras for a Bessa R3a?
Yes, it's wrong. Lots of opinions, some OT, but that's my answer. For every "I love my *****" on this site there is an "I'm sorry I sold my ******". Gear is a fickle thing, one camera is an open door for frustration.
Your frustration level may be different than mine.
Yes, it's wrong. Lots of opinions, some OT, but that's my answer. For every "I love my *****" on this site there is an "I'm sorry I sold my ******". Gear is a fickle thing, one camera is an open door for frustration.
Your frustration level may be different than mine.
Guaranteed
Well-known
I'm really diggin my R3A and I carry a spare set of batteries in the bag so the whole dead battery thing is of no concern for me.
I had thought of grabbing an M6 .72 for the amount of lenses I could use without an external VF but figured I could get a new R3A, R4A, and at least one lens for the price of a used M6.
It became an exceptionally simple decision once I thought of it like that. Well that and reading posts about how it could take months to get the M6 repaired if something went wonky with it.
I've still yet to get the R4A but some day I'll pick one up, I'm not really much into shooting wide but I know the situation will present itself some day.
I had thought of grabbing an M6 .72 for the amount of lenses I could use without an external VF but figured I could get a new R3A, R4A, and at least one lens for the price of a used M6.
It became an exceptionally simple decision once I thought of it like that. Well that and reading posts about how it could take months to get the M6 repaired if something went wonky with it.
I've still yet to get the R4A but some day I'll pick one up, I'm not really much into shooting wide but I know the situation will present itself some day.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Chur,
As others have said, it's a great camera, but I prefer not to be battery dependent. In the Forbidden City in Peking; batteries fail; several minutes panic while I can't find the spares... Same goes for the ZI.
Shutterbug review of R3A: http://www.shutterbug.com/equipmentreviews/35mm_cameras/0406voigtlander/
Reviews by same authors of ZI:
http://www.shutterbug.com/equipmentreviews/35mm_cameras/0406zeiss/, http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/zeiss.html
A quote from Leicaphilia, http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/leicaphilia.html
There are effectively two alternatives to the Leica: Voigtländer and Zeiss Ikon, both made by Cosina. Both are excellent cameras, but as the British Journal of Photography once memorably remarked, even if all three were made by the same manufacturer, the fit, feel and features of each would mean that their prices would be differentiated in about the same way they are now, with Leica at the top and Zeiss Ikon in second place.
And finally from a general piece about RF photography, and an overview of what's on the market, http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps rf.html
Rangefinder photographers tend to be somewhat evangelical about the cameras they use, though only the most enthusiastic would suggest that a rangefinder camera can do everything. We would not go that far: we also use several other kinds of camera. But the vast majority of our photography, including most of what appears on this site, is done with rangefinder cameras.
Cheers,
R.
As others have said, it's a great camera, but I prefer not to be battery dependent. In the Forbidden City in Peking; batteries fail; several minutes panic while I can't find the spares... Same goes for the ZI.
Shutterbug review of R3A: http://www.shutterbug.com/equipmentreviews/35mm_cameras/0406voigtlander/
Reviews by same authors of ZI:
http://www.shutterbug.com/equipmentreviews/35mm_cameras/0406zeiss/, http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/zeiss.html
A quote from Leicaphilia, http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/leicaphilia.html
There are effectively two alternatives to the Leica: Voigtländer and Zeiss Ikon, both made by Cosina. Both are excellent cameras, but as the British Journal of Photography once memorably remarked, even if all three were made by the same manufacturer, the fit, feel and features of each would mean that their prices would be differentiated in about the same way they are now, with Leica at the top and Zeiss Ikon in second place.
And finally from a general piece about RF photography, and an overview of what's on the market, http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps rf.html
Rangefinder photographers tend to be somewhat evangelical about the cameras they use, though only the most enthusiastic would suggest that a rangefinder camera can do everything. We would not go that far: we also use several other kinds of camera. But the vast majority of our photography, including most of what appears on this site, is done with rangefinder cameras.
Cheers,
R.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Go ahead. A camera that you enjoy shooting is worth more than twenty old RFs and SLRs sitting around and gathering dust.
I wouldn't bother about the mechanical shutter too much. Put two spare LR44s in your wallet, and if you do forget them, you can buy them practically everywhere in the world (probably even the Forbidden City
)I'd be more careful about that finder. 1:1 finders are nice, but not for everyone, especially if you shoot 35mm or wider lenses. When I first looked through an R3x viewfinder, I found that its 40mm framelines were already pretty much on the edge of my vision. Do try and look through that viewfinder at least once before you sell every camera for it.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Go ahead. A camera that you enjoy shooting is worth more than twenty old RFs and SLRs sitting around and gathering dust.
I wouldn't bother about the mechanical shutter too much. Put two spare LR44s in your wallet, and if you do forget them, you can buy them practically everywhere in the world (probably even the Forbidden City
I'd be more careful about that finder. 1:1 finders are nice, but not for everyone, especially if you shoot 35mm or wider lenses. When I first looked through an R3x viewfinder, I found that its 40mm framelines were already pretty much on the edge of my vision. Do try and look through that viewfinder at least once before you sell every camera for it.
Possibly, though I'd not be certain of it -- and there was an impressively long queue at the only place that appeared to sell anything.
Your advice is entirely reasonable: I think battery dependency is an emotional/personal concern rather than a logical one. But then, so is photography and which camera to choose...
Cheers,
R.
Disrespective
Member
Yeah, the battery thing isn't a big deal as I would imagine i'd be taking my larger D300 to the same places as I would take the RF as my second body. Two more batteries in the bag won't make any difference.
Thanks for the expansive post Roger, I've read a few of those links already and the others too now and found them useful.
I've also been hearing people knock the 1:1 finder the more I look. I've not had a play with one yet as they're a little hard to come by down here but will definitely try and handle one before purchase.
I'm at a stage where I would like to shoot more film and like the look my Nikon S2+50 1.4 produces but find that i'm missing a few shots because i'm not fast enough on changing settings. Hence why i'm interested in a newer model RF with some slow-finger friendly technology.
I would dearly love to save for a Leica but I can get a little rough with my kit and think having something that expensive might hold me back a little. I'm not made of money heh. Hence I'm aiming a little lower at the ZI or Bessa's.
I think it might be time for a change regardless and i'll get onto selling the older gear and wait to try each camera before making the big decision.
Thanks for the expansive post Roger, I've read a few of those links already and the others too now and found them useful.
I've also been hearing people knock the 1:1 finder the more I look. I've not had a play with one yet as they're a little hard to come by down here but will definitely try and handle one before purchase.
I'm at a stage where I would like to shoot more film and like the look my Nikon S2+50 1.4 produces but find that i'm missing a few shots because i'm not fast enough on changing settings. Hence why i'm interested in a newer model RF with some slow-finger friendly technology.
I would dearly love to save for a Leica but I can get a little rough with my kit and think having something that expensive might hold me back a little. I'm not made of money heh. Hence I'm aiming a little lower at the ZI or Bessa's.
I think it might be time for a change regardless and i'll get onto selling the older gear and wait to try each camera before making the big decision.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Every now and then I'll take my M2 or M3 out of the cupboard to run through the shutter speeds a couple of times and after a minute I'll think "dang this thing is nice ... why don't I use it more?"
Then I'll take the Ikon from the cupboard and look through the finder, take note of the extra shutter speed, marvel at the accuracy of the metering and the option of using AE, remember that I can load a film into it in less than twenty seconds!
Then I'll put the M2 back in the cupboard and continue to use the Ikon!
Bingley
Veteran
It's not wrong, but is it wise?
OK, kidding aside, here's my take on the R3A, having owned one for over a year (and also owning an M2):
Pros: bright vf, and the AE and metering are excellent. I used my R3A to shoot a wedding last October, relying heavily on the AE, and the camera performed like a champ. The exposure lock is also nice. It has a solid feel to it, and is pretty compact. I think of the R3A as an updated version of the Minolta CLE (although obviously missing the 28 framelines). Quieter shutter than a Bessa R, although not as quiet as a Leica M. A great value as a camera body.
Cons: some R3*s have rangefinder alignment problems, meaning that the rf patch can easily go out of vertical alignment (mine is one of them, although I think the problem may be fixed now). I'm not sure why this should be, and owners of R4s and R2s have not reported this problem to anything like the same extent. The other "issue" is that the framelines for 40mm are hard to see if you wear glasses (I do). Still, that hasn't stopped me from using a 40 on the R3A, but I think where the camera really sings is w/ a 50 (maybe a 75 too). Finally, some users have complained about the placement of the strap lugs, such that the camera doesn't hang straight; it's true that it doesn't, but that doesn't bother me much.
I haven't decided yet whether to keep my R3A for the long haul. Now that the rf alignment problem is fixed (at least for now), I'm enjoying shooting w/ it, and it's nice to have a camera body w/ AE even though I shoot in manual mode most of the time.
OK, kidding aside, here's my take on the R3A, having owned one for over a year (and also owning an M2):
Pros: bright vf, and the AE and metering are excellent. I used my R3A to shoot a wedding last October, relying heavily on the AE, and the camera performed like a champ. The exposure lock is also nice. It has a solid feel to it, and is pretty compact. I think of the R3A as an updated version of the Minolta CLE (although obviously missing the 28 framelines). Quieter shutter than a Bessa R, although not as quiet as a Leica M. A great value as a camera body.
Cons: some R3*s have rangefinder alignment problems, meaning that the rf patch can easily go out of vertical alignment (mine is one of them, although I think the problem may be fixed now). I'm not sure why this should be, and owners of R4s and R2s have not reported this problem to anything like the same extent. The other "issue" is that the framelines for 40mm are hard to see if you wear glasses (I do). Still, that hasn't stopped me from using a 40 on the R3A, but I think where the camera really sings is w/ a 50 (maybe a 75 too). Finally, some users have complained about the placement of the strap lugs, such that the camera doesn't hang straight; it's true that it doesn't, but that doesn't bother me much.
I haven't decided yet whether to keep my R3A for the long haul. Now that the rf alignment problem is fixed (at least for now), I'm enjoying shooting w/ it, and it's nice to have a camera body w/ AE even though I shoot in manual mode most of the time.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
One thing that really makes an imrovement to the Bessas IMO is the genuine accessory grip. I spotted one for sale in the classifieds a while ago and it was local and cheap so I though why not? It solves the strap lug problem and it makes the camera a lot easier to grip.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Or, alternatively, get a Kiev 4 case and use the lower half as a half case for the Bessa. It's cheap, solves the strap lug problem, makes the camera a lot easier to grip, and dampens the noise.
principe azul
Ian
Selling. Why not? Better to have a camera you'll use than a drawerful you don't.
One camera. Having a second camera is nice, but it's only a backup if you take it with you everywhere you go. If you're a professional, it makes sense. If you're not, it's extra baggage. I once found myself on holiday without a camera. So I bought disposables.
Batteries. Dante Stella on electronic versus mechanical, clarifies the issues. Mechanical cameras NEVER have electronic failures. They just have mechanical failures. You can lose or drop both. I've never lost a shot because my batteries conked out. But several times I've run out of film.
Leica. I had an M4 and a Bessa - and I'd agree with wgerrard. There's a thrill to taking a picture with something that doesn't have a light meter and was made before you were born and is exquisitely engineered. Like making a good exposure with a Holga. But a Bessa is more practical. I guess I incline to Dante's view that 35mm is about practicality and convenience.
Anyway, don't worry too much, and enjoy your new camera!
One camera. Having a second camera is nice, but it's only a backup if you take it with you everywhere you go. If you're a professional, it makes sense. If you're not, it's extra baggage. I once found myself on holiday without a camera. So I bought disposables.
Batteries. Dante Stella on electronic versus mechanical, clarifies the issues. Mechanical cameras NEVER have electronic failures. They just have mechanical failures. You can lose or drop both. I've never lost a shot because my batteries conked out. But several times I've run out of film.
Leica. I had an M4 and a Bessa - and I'd agree with wgerrard. There's a thrill to taking a picture with something that doesn't have a light meter and was made before you were born and is exquisitely engineered. Like making a good exposure with a Holga. But a Bessa is more practical. I guess I incline to Dante's view that 35mm is about practicality and convenience.
Anyway, don't worry too much, and enjoy your new camera!
Disrespective
Member
I totally agree, i've been using a Nikon S2 for a wee while now and love the results, when they turn out. I'd just like to make my life a little easier and get something a little newer heh. I'm sick of spending hours over a magnifying glass and soldering iron fixing components and connections of 'ancient' light meters heh.