noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
I have had this exact thing happen to me - and more than on one occasion.
My immediate reaction in each instance was "Oh, cool! A street photographer! Hope he gets some good images."
The last time this happened to me was several months ago. After rigorous testing and close scrutiny by numerous members of the clergy representing multiple major religious traditions, it has been determined that my soul has indeed not been stolen by these rogue street photographers.
user237428934
User deletion pending
Reportage Photography...Yes. But no single street photo has done anything good ever. Those photos are for pure enjoyment of the photographer (ok, at least it has done something good to him)
haempe
Well-known
I'm not so sure about that. It seems to me that early street photography often includes a accusatory social component. But maybe this is just in the eye of the beholder...
Archiver
Veteran
Sontag was entitled to her negative beliefs. We are entitled to our positive beliefs.
For me, photography is a celebration of life. It is the crystallization of discrete moments in an ever changing flow. When I take a photo of someone, I am saying, "I see you, I recognize you, I acknowledge you". It is the understanding of the importance of people, things and events around us; the communication of experiences that words cannot convey; the ability to depict personal qualities in the blink of an eye.
Sontag's language and rhetoric often smacked of the negatively sensational. 'The white race is the cancer of human history'? Come on.
For me, photography is a celebration of life. It is the crystallization of discrete moments in an ever changing flow. When I take a photo of someone, I am saying, "I see you, I recognize you, I acknowledge you". It is the understanding of the importance of people, things and events around us; the communication of experiences that words cannot convey; the ability to depict personal qualities in the blink of an eye.
Sontag's language and rhetoric often smacked of the negatively sensational. 'The white race is the cancer of human history'? Come on.
Brian Legge
Veteran
The trauma inflicted upon the subjects of this photo is obvious:
Peter_wrote:
Well-known
she wrote ""subliminal murder", not "murder", by the way. seems, that some deliberately want to understand the sentence in a simplified way.
i think, that's a good point. but nevertheless i think noisycheeses first post may be a good starting point for a discussion.
i haven't read the book either (but want to do it soon). but just referring to this sentence, i think she was more interested in the photographer than into the photographed object.
so obvious she didn't thought, that someones soul gets stolen etc., but wanted to analyze the photographers intentions.
i think, it depends on the photographer himself of course. different photographers have different approaches. and also the more professional someone gets and the more someone thinks about his work, the less the "subliminal" part will get.
just think of all the street photography hobbyists now. do you think that really all these guys are just interested in documenting modern social life?
personally i really have the feeling, that for a lot of people, this is just some kind of "hunting" with also involving some "thrill" and owning the photography as "trophy".
some flickr streams really look like walls with hanged up trophies of shot people to me.
nowadays sontag maybe would write about some kind of youtube videos, too. a camera in your hand or a smartphone may indeed used like a weapon. and you are hopefully on the secure end.
some here refer to her personal life and her relationship with leibovitz. i think, that's amateur psychology. writing a book, just you had a bad day..?! come on!
this just comes up when the person is a female anyway (that she is just a little frightened girlie, frustrated, pms,..)
i think, photography and drawing are two different pair of shoes. in both the result is a picture, but the act of photographing and drawing is quite different.
i agree. like i wrote above, there a different photographers with different approaches. the sentence in the starting post of this thread standing alone may be a generalisation.
i think, that's a good point. but nevertheless i think noisycheeses first post may be a good starting point for a discussion.
i haven't read the book either (but want to do it soon). but just referring to this sentence, i think she was more interested in the photographer than into the photographed object.
so obvious she didn't thought, that someones soul gets stolen etc., but wanted to analyze the photographers intentions.
i think, it depends on the photographer himself of course. different photographers have different approaches. and also the more professional someone gets and the more someone thinks about his work, the less the "subliminal" part will get.
just think of all the street photography hobbyists now. do you think that really all these guys are just interested in documenting modern social life?
personally i really have the feeling, that for a lot of people, this is just some kind of "hunting" with also involving some "thrill" and owning the photography as "trophy".
some flickr streams really look like walls with hanged up trophies of shot people to me.
nowadays sontag maybe would write about some kind of youtube videos, too. a camera in your hand or a smartphone may indeed used like a weapon. and you are hopefully on the secure end.
some here refer to her personal life and her relationship with leibovitz. i think, that's amateur psychology. writing a book, just you had a bad day..?! come on!
this just comes up when the person is a female anyway (that she is just a little frightened girlie, frustrated, pms,..)
i think, photography and drawing are two different pair of shoes. in both the result is a picture, but the act of photographing and drawing is quite different.
i agree. like i wrote above, there a different photographers with different approaches. the sentence in the starting post of this thread standing alone may be a generalisation.
Sparrow
Veteran
... the thing is "subliminal murder" is a contradiction isn't it? it's there to confuse the reader, to seem profound without actually being so, her intention in using it and from what I've read many other such statements is not to inform the reader but to demonstrate the depth of her intellect.
The point of philosophy is for great minds to inform the rest of us ... not for mediocre ones to confuse us with paradox
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
It's actually a really shallow grab for attention. I don't even think it demonstrates her supposed intellect because anybody who thinks about it for a moment can see it's BS.
I've heard and read all sorts of things about photography as it relates to the subconscious of the photographer, a lot of which has at least some reason behind it. Cameras are jewelry? Gadgets make their owners feel smart? Photography is a form of voyeurism? Not simply speculation but in some cases demonstrably true.
Photography is subliminal murder? Subconsciously a photographer is killing the people he takes photos of with his subliminal gun? It's a frankly idiotic idea, but it sounds subversive enough, at least superficially for people to give it more thought than it deserves. Never mind that photographs are about preserving moments in time, people places etc, and not about destroying them. One could make a better argument for photography being a subliminal quest for immortality than anybody could make for photography as subliminal murder. The use of the word murder here is a grab for attention and nothing more so far as I can see.
Sparrow
Veteran
... or a explicit attempt at immortality when one gets to my age
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
Perhaps there's something here. These days, isn't everybody supposed to "be their own brand"? Don't way too many people exist only through a carefully curated "social media presence"? Is a stray, uncontrolled, photograph not a potential disruption of this? Like some dreaded paparazzo catching Angelina Jolie in sweatpants with her hair in curlers?
Now, most people aren't Angelina Jolie. Nobody pays that much attention to them. They may well, however, pay a great deal of attention to themselves and to presenting their lives as being "just so". A photo they haven't personally approved might be seen by their Facebook friends! The horror!! Of course they feel assaulted: they are their brand and it might have been damaged. Regardless of whether their "friends" ever see it, or could give a toss if they did.
As something of a curator of her own image, perhaps Ms Sontag was simply ahead of her time in appreciating the dangers posed by uncontrolled photography.
...Mike
Now, most people aren't Angelina Jolie. Nobody pays that much attention to them. They may well, however, pay a great deal of attention to themselves and to presenting their lives as being "just so". A photo they haven't personally approved might be seen by their Facebook friends! The horror!! Of course they feel assaulted: they are their brand and it might have been damaged. Regardless of whether their "friends" ever see it, or could give a toss if they did.
As something of a curator of her own image, perhaps Ms Sontag was simply ahead of her time in appreciating the dangers posed by uncontrolled photography.
...Mike
j j
Well-known
As Peter_wrote wrote, there are some very literal interpretations here. When people use the adage "the pen is mightier than the sword" do we imagine a dual where one side is armed with a feather and the other a sharpened steel bar?
Sparrow
Veteran
... wouldn't you say one is compelled to the literal interpretation when the statement as a whole defies definition?
Can you define the meaning? the former (subliminal) by definition must be an unconscious act while the latter (murder) must be conscious one ... or perhaps you see things with blinding clarity while I'm languishing in knowing ignorance of her literal metaphors?
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
Well she is literally saying "subliminal murder" - which obviously doesn't mean literal murder, but is still literally subliminal murder.
Sparrow
Veteran
eh? ... surely murder is a conscious act by definition
Prest_400
Multiformat
I think that comparting it to a murder is quite brutal. Even if it's not a literal murder, it's too strong a concept. I'd agree that it's sort of a privacity violation, especially photographing some strangers but...
Depends on the context.
For me, rather than a murder, it's the act of taking some reality and be able to fiddle with it.
Depends on the context.
For me, rather than a murder, it's the act of taking some reality and be able to fiddle with it.
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
Yes, but by definition anything subliminal is "below the threshold of conscious perception" - which means that "subliminal murder" would be fueled by an unconscious desire to murder.
So basically, when we aim our subliminal weapons at people and "shoot" them, we do so because of a subconscious desire to murder them.
Some of us though kill landscapes, kittens, and flowers at extremely close range. Quite a few of have a strong desire to murder clouds and beaches - just below our conscious threshold! I guess it is sort of ridiculous that we'd all be taking picture of the things we love, because we hate those things deep down inside.
Sparrow
Veteran
Yes, but by definition anything subliminal is "below the threshold of conscious perception" - which means that "subliminal murder" would be fueled by an unconscious desire to murder.
So basically, when we aim our subliminal weapons at people and "shoot" them, we do so because of a subconscious desire to murder them.
Some of us though kill landscapes, kittens, and flowers at extremely close range. Quite a few of have a strong desire to murder clouds and beaches - just below our conscious threshold! I guess it is sort of ridiculous that we'd all be taking picture of the things we love, because we hate those things deep down inside.
.. thanks for clearing that up ... so I can tell the wife it's OK to get a model in, cos I'll be dressing her up subconsciously ...
cool
Michael Markey
Veteran
fireblade
Vincenzo.
....can she cook?
bobbyrab
Well-known
Susan Sontag's book on photography is still one of the core reading requirements on any UK photography degree course.
I wonder why that is. Maybe they haven't realised as we have, she's a pretentious twaddle writing silly woman, given to writing spurious nonsense to get back at her lover.
Maybe we could start a collective of essays to offer as an alternative.
I wonder why that is. Maybe they haven't realised as we have, she's a pretentious twaddle writing silly woman, given to writing spurious nonsense to get back at her lover.
Maybe we could start a collective of essays to offer as an alternative.