Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Actually, all FSU LTM cameras and lenses do have shims. Different shims. With notes written in the passport of the camera, lens. So for best results individual shimming was and is necessary. Not always, but not so rare.
As for the quality rant, I-61 (L/D) is OK from any year, so does J-3, J-8.
I've had J-12 from sixties, now 1950 and before this one from 1991. The only big difference of the one from 1991, was oil on aperture blades, due to over oiling on the factory.
Optically old (white) and new (black) LTM FSU lenses are identical. With new ones better on color photography side.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
True - the grease can be a real problem. I stripped down one of my Jupiter 8s and the I-61 L/D, cleaned them with isopropyl alcohol, and re-lubed with lithium grease.
The improvement was spectacular... the focus action was buttery-smooth after the overhaul!
You would believe, but Leica old lenses and even not so old ones needed the same...
tbhv55
Well-known
Well, I don't have direct experience of Leica equipment, but I can believe what you say!
Fotohuis
Well-known
Not of any year. I had a 1991 I-61 L/D which could not be make within the right specs. The mechanical parts were out of tolerance. It was a hopeless attempt for repair-adjustment.
So far what I have seen you are better of with the older FSU materials. The chance that you have a worse repair version can be maybe bigger but if you have a good address for FSU repair you are better off. BTW last year I have found in Ukraine a Zorki-6 with I-50 in an attic new in the box. As brand new but also here the grease was gone and you could hardly move the lens. After a CLA it is the best FSU camera and lens which I have. And that for 600 hrivna (=$25).
About shims I meant re-shimming for another camera (read: digital). English is not my best language.
So far what I have seen you are better of with the older FSU materials. The chance that you have a worse repair version can be maybe bigger but if you have a good address for FSU repair you are better off. BTW last year I have found in Ukraine a Zorki-6 with I-50 in an attic new in the box. As brand new but also here the grease was gone and you could hardly move the lens. After a CLA it is the best FSU camera and lens which I have. And that for 600 hrivna (=$25).
About shims I meant re-shimming for another camera (read: digital). English is not my best language.
gb hill
Veteran
One of my most surprisingly good lenses is the I-50/3.5. Came with a 58 Zorki 2c. The lens is very sharp on my Bessa R.
I also have an I-26m 52/2.8 that I need to shoot. It came with a Fed 2. Very clean lens. Fotohuis or anyone else who'd like to chime in, what are your thoughts on the I-26m?
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I-26m was the only lens I used and it was with color slides film. Couple of decades later I rediscovered it on bw film and prints.
Roots of care. by Kostya Fedot, on Flickr
Boating by Kostya Fedot, on Flickr
To me it is better lens comparing to primitive and cheap by all means 61 L/D.
Roots of care. by Kostya Fedot, on Flickr
Boating by Kostya Fedot, on Flickr
To me it is better lens comparing to primitive and cheap by all means 61 L/D.
gb hill
Veteran
Looks fantastic Kostya. I now have it mounted on my Bessa R with Arista 100edu.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Wishing happy alignment, Greg!
Fotohuis
Well-known
I do not have this lens so I can not give any comment on it.
My test results of above lenses were done with B&W film. So about using an I-61 (L/D) on color film I can not give any comment too.
Important of all those lenses is to use a sun hood. They are all prone to flare. The only exception is a J-12 because of the construction of this lens.
In design the I-61 is a more modern design, comparing to the I-26M, I-50 and J-8 or J-3.
lrochfort
Well-known
It's a great lens. In my opinion it makes a nice compliment to the Jupiter 8 because it gives a more modern image if that makes sense.
You do have to watch for examples that have had a hard life, but there are several Ukranian and Russian sellers on ebay that I've bought from who have sent me an alternative lens very quickly with no questions asked
You do have to watch for examples that have had a hard life, but there are several Ukranian and Russian sellers on ebay that I've bought from who have sent me an alternative lens very quickly with no questions asked
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
I think the main problem with all the old ex-USSR lenses is that they are cheap and so people think it OK to do their own repairs and they don't always get it right. Then they sell it and someone else gets the problem only lightly worse. (And two people moan about it on the internet.)
Of course, there are wicked people in this world who do a complete overhaul using just a spray can of something because they don't have to dismantle the things when done that way.
As I see it the cameras are based on Leicas and so should be repaired by experts as Leicas are and, of course, the charge will be the same regardless of make. But people will expect a 1950's camera to have a 1950's repair bill.
And the dealers could test the lenses. Two frames on a film and a piece of paper with the lens' serial number on it don't cost the earth and are a lot less than the postage to send out a replacement.
Regards, David
I think the main problem with all the old ex-USSR lenses is that they are cheap and so people think it OK to do their own repairs and they don't always get it right. Then they sell it and someone else gets the problem only lightly worse. (And two people moan about it on the internet.)
Of course, there are wicked people in this world who do a complete overhaul using just a spray can of something because they don't have to dismantle the things when done that way.
As I see it the cameras are based on Leicas and so should be repaired by experts as Leicas are and, of course, the charge will be the same regardless of make. But people will expect a 1950's camera to have a 1950's repair bill.
And the dealers could test the lenses. Two frames on a film and a piece of paper with the lens' serial number on it don't cost the earth and are a lot less than the postage to send out a replacement.
Regards, David
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
I'd like to see dealers doing that, and I don't mind paying 3 times higher than eBay-average price for a tested lens, but most of the dealers are just dumping the lenses and hoping for the buyers don't know what they are buying. The horrible part is those sellers can live with negative feedbacks.
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
Exactly, here and there one can find quite expensive Leicas having the scent of «WD-…» — one of the reasons why I wouldn't buy more expensive items via Ebay …
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
David, I'm reading same Pickwick papers from you again and again.
May I dare to bring you closer to the real life?
None of the FSU LTM cameras were build like Leica. NONE. This is why Leica repair specialists are not taking them for repairs. They are doing it not because here is no prestige Leica label, but because those cameras build in the way where you can't guarantee or predict.
Most of FSU lenses are sold for pennies. With miserable profit. And do you really think what people who are selling it from Russia and Ukraine have money to test it on film and still make couple of dollars?
David, two dollars in Moscow is the cost of meal or bottle of vodka. But film ain't cheap...
DIY manuals for lens CLA exist and available for any kind of lenses. Including Leitz made. And people are doing it regardless how much lens cost.
FSU lenses were made in millions. Your constant and repetitive blaming of self-repairs is not significant as frequency of your repeats about it. Made in millions FSU lenses have huge fluctuation in the quality right from the factory.
And some of the lenses are good, actually because of capable people to fix is after.
Konstantin.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I bought a brand new LTM black finish Jupiter 9 lens in 1991 that was made in that same year and it was not shimmed properly and it would not focus well on several Zorki 4 and Zorki 4K and on all of my FED 5c and 5b cameras. In fact it would not focus properly on any LTM RF camera besides the FSU made ones.
So the lens came from the factory not properly adjusted.
zuiko85
Veteran
I like that, guess I did too, now I shoot pinhole (but not 35mm, 4X5 is the smallest I will go with pinhole).
Being broke I've given up on gear buying, but all I have for my M4-2 is a CV 35 f2.5 and I do like the 50mm AOV so I was looking at the very lens being discussed in this thread. Food for thought.
gb hill
Veteran
It worked well with my Fed2. Fed died & gave it away but kept the lens. All other FSU lenses I have, J3, J8, I-50/3.5 rigid, & I-61ld work well on my Bessa R. I have a J12 but reserve it for my Zorki 2c. I have a CV 35/2.5 for the Bessa.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
The best I-61 l/d lens that I ever had came on a Fed 3 camera.
The camera self destructed like a quarter of the FSU gear I ever owned and I mis-placed that lens. It was engraved as being 52 or 53 mm as the focal length, different than the many later 55mm ones that came on the Fed 5c or 5b.
Some of these very late ones were very shoddily made, wobbly focus helical and silk screened numbers but ok optically.
The camera self destructed like a quarter of the FSU gear I ever owned and I mis-placed that lens. It was engraved as being 52 or 53 mm as the focal length, different than the many later 55mm ones that came on the Fed 5c or 5b.
Some of these very late ones were very shoddily made, wobbly focus helical and silk screened numbers but ok optically.
David Hughes
David Hughes
When I read peoples' experience on these forums I think I am reading about real life; a lot of posts are from people wondering how to take something to bits or, worse, wondering how to put it together again. I figure there are people who are not mechanically minded but who will try it anyway.
Repairers will deal with old USSR cameras in my experience. I know of only one camera that absolutely no one I phoned in the UK would touch and that was a Leica. They all said that they couldn't repair old electronics. Some repairers will turn down USSR made cameras because they won't or can't get the parts. They also like to have factory issued workshop manuals for them and I don't think they exist in English for many FEDs and Zorkis. Luckily some people, like Oleg, have the parts etc and can work miracles.
Profits depend on the price you pay for something and the price you charge for it, neither are fixed. On the internet I have seen wide variations in the added cost of postage and guess a lot of profit comes from that, because postage prices are fixed by the postal people but the lens sellers know that buyers don't know them and we don't look closely and think.
As 36 or 37 lenses can be tested with a cassette of film I don't see that as an expense. And a lot of sellers in what was the USSR seem to have expensive digital cameras, even Leica M's.
DIY lens manuals are just that, putting a lens together properly is not as easy as people think and testing it afterwards is not easy either and needs some expensive equipment. And I can remember reading on these forums about people who found shims in the wrong place and lenses in back to front and so on. As most of the lenses were very old (and a few could be up to 80 to 90 years old) and second-hand I figure the factories input is long gone and the owners screwed it up.
I've met very few people who have bought a brand new USSR made camera, especially rare are people who bought one brand new in the 1950's, 60's and 70's. I also asked here if anyone had bought one brand new and got a mere handful of replies.
Lastly, my real life experience of the old USSR made cameras is no different from my experience of old German or Japanese made cameras. The fact that FEDs and Leicas from the 1930's can still be used and feel and behave the same suggests to me that they have a lot in common and the same applies to my ones from the 50's and 60's.
There are one or two differences even I can see but some are improvements like the Zorki 1's using normal cable releases and the FED and Zorki RF's colour contrast.
BTW 1, once I had to scrap a IIIc and Summitar as beyond repair but that was due to the previous owner(s) and I figure the same applies to FEDs and Zorkis etc. It doesn't seem an outrageous idea to me to blame the state of an elderly second-hand camera or lens on the owners...
BTW 2, I know one or two experts in the Leica field who have stripped down and checked USSR made copies out of curiosity and have been impressed. And I bought my first FED out of curiosity and was impressed and when Oleg had worked his magic I was very impressed; it was just like my Leica II.
BTW 3, I must get my Leica II checked and so on as I've had it a long while and feel it needs a little TLC - like any mechanical device that's a few years old.
Regards, David
PS And a lot of people don't bother with instruction manuals and we all know about the shutter speed setting routine...
Fotohuis
Well-known
RTFM. :bang: