Is this IVSb setup worth repairing?

[dbm]

I've posted a pic of my father's IV-Sb setup in the "Show Off" thread

The low shutter speeds on the camera are not working correctly. It occasionally does the right thing, but sticks open more often than not. While stuck open, I can sometimes get the timer to run by shaking the camera slightly, or turning the lower shutter dial.

Some of the lenses are fairly stiff for either aperture or focus.

My first question about the setup is, "Is this worth repairing?". I shot with it back in HS, but didn't like it, because it was completely manual - I ended up borrowing a camera from the school with a built in light meter to shoot for the yearbook. 30+ years later, time has taken it's toll on the equipment.

Now my daughter will graduate HS this year, and wants to go to college for photography. It might be nice for several reasons to get this equipment back into working condition.

What price is too high to have it repaired? I tried bidding on another IVSb body on E-bay just to have extra parts, but was too cheap and didn't bid high enough (It went for only $118.50).

I presume all the lenses need a good cleaning as well, and don't know where to have it done. I'm about an hour north of Boston, Mass. There's a repair shop back in Illinois where I'm from originally, and I think they repaired the old Twin-Lens Reflex my dad also had. I swear it's the same location, but 30 years may have dulled my memory. I could get the camera to my mother to take into there and have them look at it.

And finally, a possibly horrid thought: Should I try to take the top off and look inside at where the low shutter dial is? I'd hate to have some spring or other part fly out and not know how to put it back together. But I already found a torn piece of film stuck in the camera, and wonder if I can blow some compressed air into the right mechanism (If I can find it), I might free it up.

 

[ItsReallyDarren]

You can get a rough estimate of the repair price from Essex camera. http://www.essexcamera.com/camera_list.php?brand=CANON Take a look at the "V Series" at the bottom of the page.

Depending on the person who works on them, there are many competent repair shops out there, and the amount of work needed I would guess a repair bill between $100 - $200.

You could try considering selling one of your lenses to fund the repair of the body.

 

[DNG]

It's all relative..
First off, you have some mighty rare long teles. I assume you have the reflex attachment also.

Figure around $200.00-$300.00 for a complete CLA on the body, and maybe some replacement of small parts

The lenses... Good ?? Figure $100.00 per lens. some could be more.

I'd say it is worth it.

Don't think your daughter wants to haul it to college. Don't offer it...too many "RARE Collector" lenses to risk.

You may spend $1000.00, but. I'd bet once it is all working like new, you may be able to double or greater that expense.

Sell to collectors in Japan. Really, there is a surge of buying back older Canon RF kits like yours.

 

[dbm]

Reflex attachment???

Reflex attachment???

It's all relative..
I assume you have the reflex attachment also.
.
.
.
Don't think your daughter wants to haul it to college.

Never heard of a reflex attachment. If what I'm Google-ing is right, more info, please!

I wouldn't let my daughter take it to college, she'll probably end up with a Canon 60D or T3i to start out with. But if she ends up needing to do some real film work at some point, she may be interested in using these. If they can stay in the family and be used, fantastic!

 

[rover]

But if she ends up needing to do some real film work at some point, she may be interested in using these. If they can stay in the family and be used, fantastic!

I think the answer, is it worth repairing, to me is yes. Look around, you will find a number of places to have the camera repaired for a wide range of prices. Having the repairs done has more to do with the quoted statement above than it does in value. The Canon RF cameras are well made machines. With a little work to get it clean and ready it should work fine for you or your daughter when you are ready to go out and shoot it.

 

[johannielscom]

Nice kit!

My advice:

Put the lenses and body in the window sill on a sunny day, so they get a bit warm. Work the focusing every hour for a couple of minutes. The lenses are stiff due to un-use and the grease clogged up the focusing helicals. Gradually warming and exercising should loosen it, at least a bit and hopefully enough.
Fire the shutter several times every hour. See if it gets better when being in the sun for a while.

Use the suns warmth, no hair dryer stuff etc. You don not want to overheat things, burn the shutter or have grease spill over the lens elements or aperture.

Take the body with a lens and film out and see if you like it. If not, keep it in the show case or sell the kit. If you do, then have the body and serviced, also other lenses serviced if necessary.

If the trick with suns heat does not work, a CLA for the body and a lens is the only option. You may want to consider costs and revenues up front.

Enjoy that kit!

 

[Mablo]

I had the same camera a couple of years ago. The camera worked nicely but shutter cloth was full of tiny holes. Shoot a test roll in daylight. If you see white blobs on your images you probably have pinholes. That was a PITA (read: expensive and took a lot of time) to get patched. There are no spare parts available and a new shutter is a custom job.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Unless you actually want to use the gear, I'd say sell it "as is" and save yourself the expense and hassle of CLA'ing all of that stuff. Or, display it on a shelf if you are sentimental about it.

 

[Mackinaw]

........There are no spare parts available and a new shutter is a custom job.

Replacing the shutter curtains isn't really a custom job, but it does entail taking apart the camera. Any competent repair tech will know how to do this. And you can buy third-party shutter curtains from places like micro-tools. They'll work fine too.

Jim B.

 

[dbm]

Excellent point

Excellent point

I had the same camera a couple of years ago. The camera worked nicely but shutter cloth was full of tiny holes. Shoot a test roll in daylight. If you see white blobs on your images you probably have pinholes. That was a PITA (read: expensive and took a lot of time) to get patched. There are no spare parts available and a new shutter is a custom job.

Great! I've been trying to figure out what are some of the best ways to test out the camera and lenses before having it serviced. Knowing what to tell the shop in advance to pay close attention to seems like a good idea.

I imagine the best choice would be to put a roll of film in, advance the film and take the lens cap off. Now point the lens towards a light for a minute or so. Next, put the lens cap on, take two pictures to move to the next frame and the back curtain, and expose the lens to light again - Put the lens cap back on and fire/advance one more time.

If the first picture is not all black, the lead curtain has holes. If the second frame is not all black, the rear curtain has holes.

Examining the curtains with the lens off, the lead curtain is flat and looks good. But there appears to be some sort of bump/crease in the rear curtain.

 

[dbm]

Need a warm sunny day first, but should have some soon 🙂

Need a warm sunny day first, but should have some soon 🙂

Nice kit!

My advice:

Put the lenses and body in the window sill on a sunny day, so they get a bit warm. Work the focusing every hour for a couple of minutes. The lenses are stiff due to un-use and the grease clogged up the focusing helicals. Gradually warming and exercising should loosen it, at least a bit and hopefully enough.
Fire the shutter several times every hour. See if it gets better when being in the sun for a while.

Use the suns warmth, no hair dryer stuff etc. You don not want to overheat things, burn the shutter or have grease spill over the lens elements or aperture.

Take the body with a lens and film out and see if you like it. If not, keep it in the show case or sell the kit. If you do, then have the body and serviced, also other lenses serviced if necessary.

If the trick with suns heat does not work, a CLA for the body and a lens is the only option. You may want to consider costs and revenues up front.

Enjoy that kit!

On the lenses that are sticky, I can see a fair amount of "gunk" on the blades. It's still a little cold up here in New Hampshire, but things might be warming up soon - I'll try that out. I have worked the lenses a little bit, and one of the long lenses seems better, but the other seems to vary between stiff and fine depending on the angle of the lens.

I'd take some pictures of the lenses to show, but I'm having real trouble getting a decent picture. The only digital cameras I currently have are a couple of compact P&S cameras, and an old Olympus E20-N. The E20-N does have macro mode, and manual focus, but I just can't seem to get lighting, angles, distance, etc to come together and take a good picture through to the inside the lens.

 

[rbiemer]

I imagine the best choice would be to put a roll of film in, advance the film and take the lens cap off. Now point the lens towards a light for a minute or so. Next, put the lens cap on, take two pictures to move to the next frame and the back curtain, and expose the lens to light again - Put the lens cap back on and fire/advance one more time.

Just don't use the sun for your test light!
You can burn a hole in the shutter very quickly.
Rob

 

[dbm]

Not that anyone ever did that sort of thing

Not that anyone ever did that sort of thing

Just don't use the sun for your test light!
You can burn a hole in the shutter very quickly.
Rob

Hmmm... kinda of like ants with a magnifying glass, huh?

 

[Dez]

In most cases, fixing balky slow speeds in one of these cameras or in a prewar Leica, is a really easy job. The slow speeds are regulated by a mechanical governor, which is the module you see on the floor of the camera just behind the lens mount.

To get at it, first remove the lens mount- it's possible, but really difficult when the lens mount is in the way. Then take off the baseplate, and remove the bottom cover with the loading diagram on it, held on with three screws. Under this, you will see two screws that hold the escapement in place. As I recall one of them also is one of two securing the flat shutter release spring. To make sure you choose the correct screws, loosten a few screws until you find the two that secure the escapement- they are at diagonal corners. With these removed the escapement will drop out into your hand. If you really want to, you can dismantle the escapement, but it is rarely needed. I have an ultrasonic cleaner I use for jobs like this, but just agitating the assembly in a mild solvent like mineral spirit or turpentine is generally all that is needed. If you have some very light oil, for watches, for example, you can put a tiny drop on the ends of the visible shafts. Do not lubricate the shaft for theoscillating fork.
Putting it back in is a bit fiddly. As I recall, there is a little fork sticking out of the left end of the assembly, that needs to be engaged with a peg on a lever that protrudes out under the left hand shutter drum. It's fairly obvious how it all fits together.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Dez

 

[dbm]

In most cases, fixing balky slow speeds in one of these cameras or in a prewar Leica, is a really easy job. The slow speeds are regulated by a mechanical governor, which is the module you see on the floor of the camera just behind the lens mount.

To get at it, first remove the lens mount- it's possible, but really difficult when the lens mount is in the way. Then take off the baseplate, and remove the bottom cover with the loading diagram on it, held on with three screws. Under this, you will see two screws that hold the escapement in place. As I recall one of them also is one of two securing the flat shutter release spring. To make sure you choose the correct screws, loosten a few screws until you find the two that secure the escapement- they are at diagonal corners. With these removed the escapement will drop out into your hand. If you really want to, you can dismantle the escapement, but it is rarely needed. I have an ultrasonic cleaner I use for jobs like this, but just agitating the assembly in a mild solvent like mineral spirit or turpentine is generally all that is needed. If you have some very light oil, for watches, for example, you can put a tiny drop on the ends of the visible shafts. Do not lubricate the shaft for theoscillating fork.
Putting it back in is a bit fiddly. As I recall, there is a little fork sticking out of the left end of the assembly, that needs to be engaged with a peg on a lever that protrudes out under the left hand shutter drum. It's fairly obvious how it all fits together.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Dez

Wow. I would have expected to get at this from the top of the camera, not the bottom. If I was more mechanically inclined, I'd attempt this myself. But a phrase like, "Putting it back in is a bit fiddly", is pushing me towards not doing it myself. I can just see me having to take all the little pieces parts to the camera repair shop and hoping I didn't lose any. And the repair shop owner muttering under his breath, "Idiot!" 😀

What you have told me, is that this is something that should be easily fixed as part of having the camera thoroughly cleaned/adjusted, so I probably don't need to go hunting for donor camera bodies.

I'll see how the attempts with the lenses go, but a good cleaning of everything seems in order, anyways. So I'll contact a few of the places I have been thinking about and try to get some ballpark estimates of the cost/work to be done.

Thanks!

 

[rover]

amongst others, I would get a quote from Karl regarding a repair.
http://www.zeissikonrolleirepair.com/index.html

 

[John Shriver]

There's no exotic long lenses there, just the 85/2.0 (or maybe 85/1.9) and the 135/3.5. No reflex housing would be involved. Other lenses are 100/3.5, 50/1.8 (or possibly the much more valuable 50/1.5), and the 28/3.5.

Dry shoot, focus, see how you like it. If it seems pleasant, invest in repairs of the camera.

 

[PMCC]

amongst others, I would get a quote from Karl regarding a repair.
http://www.zeissikonrolleirepair.com/index.html

Karl? This website is for a guy named Mark. Karl Mark's camera repair for FSU gear? 🙂 And it says he doesn't work on Canon.

 

[rbiemer]

Karl? This website is for a guy named Mark. Karl Mark's camera repair for FSU gear? 🙂 And it says he doesn't work on Canon.

Actually he says he does not work on fixed lens rangefinders. He does specifically mention Canon cameras:

Range Finder Cameras With Screw Mount Lenses:Including Leica SM, Minolta, Nikon, Canon, and Kodak Medalist. Sorry no M mount service.

I did think that the link was going to be to Karl Bryan, though.
Rob

 

[PMCC]

Good catch, Rob, I stand corrected: Mark Hansen does offer service for Canon LTM bodies. To my knowledge Karl Bryan is a TLR specialist, having done fine work on Ricohmatic 225s and Autocords for me, but I'm not aware of his having a website.

Peter.