It's not the arrow, it's the indian!

[Gabriel M.A.]

A near 5k camera performs on par with a camera that's half its price and you call that "quite an achievement". Yes, it is quite an achievement. ROFL

yawn. No wonder newscasts on this side of the pond are about entertainment value and not about news value. Facts are just too complicated.

 

[Trius]

Gabriel: Sheesh, show me up with a more concise and cogent statement, why dontcha? 🙄 Well put. But now we are targets for the "What happened to RFF civility" police. 😀

 

[jaapv]

A near 5k camera performs on par with a camera that's half its price and you call that "quite an achievement". Yes, it is quite an achievement. ROFL

Especially since the half the price camera has about a quarter of the attraction regarding viewfinder, handling, style and build quality for most of the members of this forum...I think you are missing quite a number of points here.

 

[John Camp]

I just got the news that I'll have to send my M8 back to Solms for repairs, which makes me a little grouchy this morning, so I'll spend ten seconds being an uncivil Rffer.

I'm getting really, really, really tired of inane comparisons between the 5D and the M8 and the D200 and the 1DsII and the D2x. In the gun world, it's often said that 99% of guns shoot better than their owners, and I suspect that is true in the camera world as well. All of these cameras are really, really good. The 5D is a great camera -- but people aren't stupid because they pay twice as much for a Leica as a 5D, they're simply paying for something that you don't get with a 5D.

You see people all the time driving $100,000 Porsches that you can't drive legally faster than you can drive a Camry and that certainly aren't as comfortable as a Camry and can't carry as much, or get as good gas mileage...but people buy them anyway, and not only for the prestige. They ***like*** the machine.

It's not that hard to understand.

Here's the really grouchy part. Most of this attitude seems to come from Canon people. Don't really see it much from Nikon or Olympus or MF people. Canons are great cameras, so what is it about ***some*** Canon people that turns them into trolls? And it's not the occasional troll that's so annoying, it's that it's the same old inane, stupifying b.s. post after post after post. It's like people who say to a really tall guy, "How's the weather up there?" Do they think he hasn't heard it before? Do 5D owners think Leica people don't know that a 5D costs half as much? What is it? Why does it continue?

JC

 

[FrankS]

Right on. I made the comparison between (film) Leica cameras and expensive cars over on APUG, in response to a poster just getting into RF's who couldn't understand why Leica was so expensive and implied that either they shouldn't be, or that no one should buy one. No one questions why some cars are more expensive than others, yet they all get you from point A to point B. Same with cameras. I own some Leicas because I like using them. I also own some other vintage cameras because they have some of the same characteristics that I value, such as high biuld quality. And I also own a Bessa R2 because it was great value for the money and it holds the film as flat and without light leaks as my vintage RF cameras. Thank you for speaking up, John!

Having said all that, I still agree that it's the Indian, not the arrow, ie. it is the rider not the bike, and it is the photographer, not the camera. But no one here would argue otherwise, I think. It's only those ignorant folk who say things like, if I had a great camera I could take great pictures.

 

[Trius]

One of my dear friends, years ago, in a conversation about a totally different topic and in the context of boyfriends she'd had:

"It's not the wand, it's the wizard."

Edit: Aaargh! Frank... you're looking for a 3rd Contax? Or do you just need to update your sig????

 

[FrankS]

Trius, I"m thinking I'd rather have one pre-war Contax and one post-war Contax instead of 2 post-war Contaxes.

I like having different arrows in my quiver to choose from. (Please read that in the context of this thread, otherwise it just sounds wrong.)

 

[jaapv]

I just got the news that I'll have to send my M8 back to Solms for repairs, which makes me a little grouchy this morning, so I'll spend ten seconds being an uncivil Rffer.

I'm getting really, really, really tired of inane comparisons between the 5D and the M8 and the D200 and the 1DsII and the D2x. In the gun world, it's often said that 99% of guns shoot better than their owners, and I suspect that is true in the camera world as well. All of these cameras are really, really good. The 5D is a great camera -- but people aren't stupid because they pay twice as much for a Leica as a 5D, they're simply paying for something that you don't get with a 5D.

You see people all the time driving $100,000 Porsches that you can't drive legally faster than you can drive a Camry and that certainly aren't as comfortable as a Camry and can't carry as much, or get as good gas mileage...but people buy them anyway, and not only for the prestige. They ***like*** the machine.

It's not that hard to understand.

Here's the really grouchy part. Most of this attitude seems to come from Canon people. Don't really see it much from Nikon or Olympus or MF people. Canons are great cameras, so what is it about ***some*** Canon people that turns them into trolls? And it's not the occasional troll that's so annoying, it's that it's the same old inane, stupifying b.s. post after post after post. It's like people who say to a really tall guy, "How's the weather up there?" Do they think he hasn't heard it before? Do 5D owners think Leica people don't know that a 5D costs half as much? What is it? Why does it continue?

JC

I was at my dealer today, to pick up some IR filters, and they told me they had 0% disgruntled M8 buyers. This is a large shop and I would guess they sold over ten camera's before the delivery hiatus. Most screaming is internet madness. The camera is still backordered for many months.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

In the gun world, it's often said that 99% of guns shoot better than their owners, and I suspect that is true in the camera world as well.

I don't own an M8, but I got pretty tired of the same quackitty-quack too a while ago. I own the 5D, and I just can't begin to understand the <insert worst FCC-censored curseword here>blasted</FCC> comparisons.

I always imagine how ridiculous (to say the least) people would look and sound if they went into a Harley Davidson dealership and whine about how their products don't look and perform like an SUV, or any other car: "but, this thing doesn't have four-wheel drive! / You mean to say you don't have a hybrid model? / No DVD player?!?" "You mean to say I have to wear a HELMET??"

If we ever cross paths, let me buy you a pint of ale.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

And it's p-ing me off (the not yet-ness) 😛

 

[raid]

Wow! You really do your homework, Roland.
I haven't yet explored AF cameras, so the digital camera world is distant for me.

Raid

 

[jaapv]

The Summarit: My comment is:angel: :angel: :angel:

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Cann't wait for you to receive it, put your Summarit or 8.5cm on it and post some portraits ... Seriously.
Cheers,

Roland.

Why, thanks, Roland. I am itching to slap the Summarit and Summilux on it. I know exactly what to do and what not to do with the digital workflow, so the whole chain of events has been utterly frustrating. There is fault in everybody's (the major players, I mean) side, but this is coming to a conclusion.

I just want to take pictures.