Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Finders are important if you don't like cameras without them. But your point is taken. If you want an optical finder in a camera, don't buy this one.
Also important if you wish to use manual focus lenses, unless this oly has some trick up it's sleeve.
If you want it to be versatile, a viewfinder is important. Otherwise, you are right, use it the way oly wants you to and a viewfinder is not.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
We, of course, are hopeful every new introduction is the mini digital Leica we all dream about. The camera companies are not producing cameras for us, though. 
As for using manual lenses, as small as this camera is, any manual lens is going to look and feel chunky on it and have an odd balance, I suspect.
As for using manual lenses, as small as this camera is, any manual lens is going to look and feel chunky on it and have an odd balance, I suspect.
gavinlg
Veteran
Haha good luck.. I've been trying for the last 3 or so pages. Although I'm glad at least one person shares my frustration toward the viewfinder obsessed crowd. :angel:
Gavin, be a rebel. Don't give into the man even if you like what he is offering. Ask for more, it is the only way to make things better.
gavinlg
Veteran
I've owned a canon 30d,nikon d300, olympus e-3 and as a whole the image quality from the Olympus 4/3 system is equal to that of the canon and nikon aps-c cameras. The E-3 has less highlight room in the dynamic range than the d300, but more shadow room. The latest versions of the 4/3 sensor in the e-30/e-620/g1 are better in the highlight range than the e-3, which was better than the e-510/e-410.
In paper tests they may have proposed disadvantages to Canikon stuff but in the real world their advantages cancel them out.
gavinlg
Veteran
I have near maternal tendencies towards olympus. I feel they deserve to do well from this camera.
hans voralberg
Veteran
I'll have to chime in now, while I use film 99% of the time I perfectly at home looking focusing with a LCD screen ala LX3, guys get over it this is the 21st century already. Learn some new tricks.
morgan
Well-known
That's a good point about MF lenses and the viewfinder (or lack thereof). I can't imagine focusing at 1.2 without one.
I'm so intrigued by the idea of this camera and what m4/3 has to offer, but at the rumored pricepoint I don't know. I've been thinking of buying an LX3/dlux4 as a small camera to carry around at all times. Now, I'm potentially considering the oly as well. I wonder if the IQ will be that different? The LX3 looks pretty amazing for a p&s, even at higher ISOs.
I'm so intrigued by the idea of this camera and what m4/3 has to offer, but at the rumored pricepoint I don't know. I've been thinking of buying an LX3/dlux4 as a small camera to carry around at all times. Now, I'm potentially considering the oly as well. I wonder if the IQ will be that different? The LX3 looks pretty amazing for a p&s, even at higher ISOs.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
I've been with you (and now Colin) all along ... but it's not surprising with an RF crowd. In general we place a high value on viewfinders, to the extent of raging arguments on which M mount has "the best" VF. If Leica came out with a digital CL, there would be complaints about the short baseline.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
And someone would complain that it wouldn't accurately focus the .95.
gavinlg
Veteran
Compare a full size image from an lx3 with one from an e-3 or similar. There is a night and day difference. Also try shooting the lx3 at ISO1250 and pushing in post processing to about ISO2000. I posted a picture on page 2 of this thread with that exactly done from an e-3. The lx3 wouldn't even be on the same planet.
I've been with you (and now Colin) all along ... but it's not surprising with an RF crowd. In general we place a high value on viewfinders, to the extent of raging arguments on which M mount has "the best" VF. If Leica came out with a digital CL, there would be complaints about the short baseline.
Cheers, and so true.
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Avotius
Some guy
I've been with you (and now Colin) all along ... but it's not surprising with an RF crowd. In general we place a high value on viewfinders, to the extent of raging arguments on which M mount has "the best" VF. If Leica came out with a digital CL, there would be complaints about the short baseline.
Dont get me wrong, I would love to have a good viewfinder in my compact digital camera but we have to be real here, though viewfinders are remarkably great for taking pictures they dont make headlines for selling cameras to the masses, and though this may not be a for the masses camera it is easy to see in modern cameras where viewfinders have taken a backseat to shiny toys. Just look at Olympus 420 and 510's....
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gavinlg
Veteran
I think the small VFs in ythe e-410 and 510 are more a case of physical and optical restraints vs size restraints.
morgan
Well-known
Thanks for that, I was just googling to try and find a comparison, and I have zero experience with either the lx3 or any of the olympus stuff. Do we know if the ep-1 is using the e-3 sensor though? I thought I read that it was allegedly using the same as the pana G1.
For me, either of these would supplement my R-D1, something smaller and lighter. I guess I'm just trying to balance the size/IQ/price/functionality. I'm jumping way ahead anyway, until the ep-1 is actually announced.
Avotius
Some guy
gavinlg
Veteran
Morgan, one of the great things about olympus is that they don't save their best sensors for their most expensive cameras - the e-420, e-520 and e-3 all use the same sensor as they were all the same generation camera. The e-410 and e-510 used the previous gen sensor, which is really where they got their bad rep for highlight range from - those 2 cameras were definitely a little short with highlights.
The e-30 and e-620 use the same sensor as the G1 which is again improved from the e-3 sensor - slightly more highlight range, about the same noise with a tighter noise pattern and more resolution overall. I'd bet the EP-1 uses the G1 sensor, or even the GH1 sensor which is basically the same unit with upgraded bits so that it can handle high levels of constant streaming data (hd video). From earlyish tests the GH1 is better with noise control than the G1/e-30/e-620 but this could just be an improvement in JPEG processing.
The e-30 and e-620 use the same sensor as the G1 which is again improved from the e-3 sensor - slightly more highlight range, about the same noise with a tighter noise pattern and more resolution overall. I'd bet the EP-1 uses the G1 sensor, or even the GH1 sensor which is basically the same unit with upgraded bits so that it can handle high levels of constant streaming data (hd video). From earlyish tests the GH1 is better with noise control than the G1/e-30/e-620 but this could just be an improvement in JPEG processing.
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morgan
Well-known
Thanks for the info, Gavin. The Oly world is new to me, my dslr's have all been Canon.
Traut
Well-known
A good LCD screen with a magnification tool ala the G1 is heads and shoulders above what I have used with Rolleiflexs and Hasselblads through the years. Even the 903 only has an external VF - I'll take an articulated 3" lcd over a 2 1/4 ground glass any day. I would like a pop up hood occasionally though.
taxi38
Taxi Driver
Whats difficult to accept is, that after an advertising campaign that is going to end with the pen f(well nearly) ,that an evf is not folded neatly inside this new pen f.It would give the series a logical conclusion.