Major Tom
Established
In a bit of shameless self-promotion I offer my own design as a counterpoint. Unfinished.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Wow. It's hard to know where to start disagreeing.
If you want to pretend that journalism is a profession, of course you're welcome. But as you say, that's your opinion, not fact.
What on earth can you mean by "Perhaps you didn't conduct yourself as a professional"? In the context of journalism, how does a professional distinguish himself, by his conduct, from an honest tradesman?
If you really think that joining a union is riding on the coat tails of others, then at least 180 years of history and social development seem have passed you by: have you ever heard of the Tolpuddle Martyrs? I considered joining the NUJ but I found them too much of a talking shop, so I didn't. But I did belong to the Society of Authors for a while.
Clearly you don't know much about plumbing either. At its best, it's an honest trade, like journalism. Either, at their worst, can be pretty bad. But you don't get as many pretentious, self-important plumbers as journalists.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Isn't this ghastly camera an Apple special, though? I know for sure that Leica don't have 55 in-house engineers with time to waste on this sort of thing.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
Major Tom
Established
If you're saying journalism isn't a profession then you've missed a few hundred years of civilization.
When you stretch yourself thin, you render yourself easy to cut with a single stroke.
When you stretch yourself thin, you render yourself easy to cut with a single stroke.
mfogiel
Veteran
" I'd rather the rich paid fair taxes to fund HIV research than this whole charity auction scam thing that makes them feel so special while they take more write-offs."
"Does seem a long-winded way of going about things, though: what if there'd been another 2149 hours of HIV research? And what would those 55 engineers have been doing if they hadn't been doing this?"
Fair taxes is a relative concept: where I live, the personal income taxes ARE fair.
As we look back on some of the greatest achievements of human genius, most of them have been inspired, commissioned or both, by some of the most cruel and immoral rulers of some of the most oppressive societies that have ever existed, or rich privileged individuals.
It does not make these achievements or masterpieces any less great or beautiful.
If any of you thinks, the way to go is to maximize equality now, you should measure yourself against the world benchmarks:
For example, there are 527,022,218 obese people in the world, and 897,202,480 undernourished people in the world. Some of the obese are on this forum: they should start giving away 50% of their food NOW !
"Does seem a long-winded way of going about things, though: what if there'd been another 2149 hours of HIV research? And what would those 55 engineers have been doing if they hadn't been doing this?"
Fair taxes is a relative concept: where I live, the personal income taxes ARE fair.
As we look back on some of the greatest achievements of human genius, most of them have been inspired, commissioned or both, by some of the most cruel and immoral rulers of some of the most oppressive societies that have ever existed, or rich privileged individuals.
It does not make these achievements or masterpieces any less great or beautiful.
If any of you thinks, the way to go is to maximize equality now, you should measure yourself against the world benchmarks:
For example, there are 527,022,218 obese people in the world, and 897,202,480 undernourished people in the world. Some of the obese are on this forum: they should start giving away 50% of their food NOW !
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Hardly. It's only in the last thirty or forty years that journalism has begun to be regarded as a 'profession'. Of course journalists want to be called professionals, but so do realtors and used car dealers. If it makes 'em happy, why not?
Admittedly it comes back to the old split between the learned professions (and the "profession of arms") and merely doing something for a living, at which point you can define anything as a "profession".
As for "a few hundred years of civilization", the regularly published newspaper, it is indeed a very few hundred: the earliest appeared in the 17th century, well under 400 years ago. I live quite near Loudun, home of Théophraste Renaudot who founded the first printed newspaper in France in 1631.
Put it this way: although in (say) the 1960s, it was entirely possible to be a professional journalist, references to "the profession of journalism" would among many people have evoked the same sort of smile as references to "the profession of rat-catcher".
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
As indeed have many of the greatest follies, wastes of money and excesses of human cruelty.
All this seems a bit irrelevant next to a single camera that rather resembles a cross between a Werra and an electric shaver.
Cheers,
R.
raytoei@gmail.com
Veteran
you read vanity fair ?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Major Tom
Established
I don't understand the propensity to incriminate entire swaths of society that one has no experience of in anything other than an indirect sense to blame ills upon. How does your repeated incantation hold any more merit than the countless times it's been invoked before to make plumes of smoke (and sometimes fire)?
The Society of Professional Journalists began as a university fraternity of journalists in Indiana in 1909. The Pulitzer Prize was established in 1917. The New York Times has been around since 1851. At what point did the NYT writers/reporters become professional journalists by your account? This is of course, just in the U.S. How does this all fall outside your rubric for "profession"?
JSU
-
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Incriminate? Smoke? Fire?
If people want to call their trade a profession, they're welcome. I just find it a bit amusing. Mind you, I have been known to find the pretensions of some lawyers, doctors and priests a bit amusing too.
When did journalism become a profession by my standard? Dunno: it hasn't happened yet. By my reckoning, "professions" require a bit more study than journalism. To pretend you can learn journalism at college suits wannabe professionals well, because they can point at their pieces of paper and boast "I am a PROFESSIONAL". No you're not: you've been to college. Start selling your work and you may turn into a professional journalist -- but that still won't make journalism a profession. "Professional" journalism is also a useful tool for excluding those who can read and write more or less entertainingly, but haven't wasted time "studying" the subject -- which probably true of 99% of journalists until recently.
Calling something a "profession" is generally a pitiful, empty claim for status. If people want to claim that status, they're welcome -- but I've been a journalist for a long time, and a lot of my friends are journalists, and most of 'em would laugh in the face of pretentious twerps who refer to journalism as a "profession". Most of us would call it a trade, and we'd regard an honest trade as a marked improvement over a fake profession.
Cheers,
R.
Major Tom
Established
In your case, "denigrate" is more apt. Your ire is a more personal flavour (apparently so), but I allude to similar political patterns of thinking. Smoke: nebulous blaming, shaming, etc to obscure or confuse. Fire: retribution for perceived "elite".
Why bear out this personal resentment in off-topic asides sprinkled all over the forum? It comes across as rather... obnoxious? Dare I say, pretentious? To borrow your own language, pitiful? At least cut to the chase next time.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Eh? No. Hell, I AM a journalist. So are a lot of my friends. Where's the denigrating? Where's the "personal resentment". All that we -- the old-fashioned journalists -- deplore is pretentiousness. Are you in favour of pretentiousness?
You don't need to be formally "qualified" to be a journalist. You just need to be good enough to sell your work. The very idea of "qualifications" for journalists is risible. Anyone with a reasonable standard of literacy and a love of words can do it, but some do it better than others. It's a bit like calling strip-tease a profession. Sure, you can be a professional strip-tease artiste, but that doesn't make strip-tease a profession.
One of the things you learn in journalism is to use words with some precision, which you are currently failing to do. You are imposing your own fantasies, sometimes couched in hopelessly vague terms -- "Smoke: nebulous blaming, shaming, etc to obscure or confuse. Fire: retribution for perceived "elite"" -- on what I've said. You're even stooping to personal insult: "obnoxius . . . pretentious . . . pitiful". Time, I think, for the ignore button.
Cheers,
R.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
One Of A Kind Digital M - Now With Images
One Of A Kind Digital M - Now With Images
Boy oh boy... Leica's still up to their old tricks:
http://petapixel.com/2013/10/08/first-photos-special-edition-jony-ive-designed-leica-m-released/
They can't keep production of the M up to the point where they can fulfill pre-orders, let alone anyone wanting to get one 'in store' (at least in my neck of the woods) but they can certainly halt their "production line" to produce an ugly as sin one off designed by that Apple dude. *smirk*
Granted the camera will be auctioned off for a worthy cause but, really, all I can say is "Thank God it's a one-of-a-kind"
Cheers,
Dave
One Of A Kind Digital M - Now With Images
Boy oh boy... Leica's still up to their old tricks:
http://petapixel.com/2013/10/08/first-photos-special-edition-jony-ive-designed-leica-m-released/
They can't keep production of the M up to the point where they can fulfill pre-orders, let alone anyone wanting to get one 'in store' (at least in my neck of the woods) but they can certainly halt their "production line" to produce an ugly as sin one off designed by that Apple dude. *smirk*
Granted the camera will be auctioned off for a worthy cause but, really, all I can say is "Thank God it's a one-of-a-kind"
Cheers,
Dave
PatrickT
New Rangefinder User
Yeeesh. I like some aspects of it, but the rectangular shape and overly rounded top and bottom edges look terrible to me.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. I suppose it's just as well it's unlikely to be used. "Egonomics" is a word that springs to mind only through its all but complete absence.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
f16sunshine
Moderator
Cute!
Maybe Jonny can design a matching shampoo bottle and back scrub brush
You think it has Siri ?
Maybe Jonny can design a matching shampoo bottle and back scrub brush
You think it has Siri ?
lam
Well-known
Reminds me of my Macbook air.. So when does "Service Battery" Display? 2 months from now?
All Apple related (even Ive designish) things must be compared to Braun; so here.
All Apple related (even Ive designish) things must be compared to Braun; so here.
I'd use it...