J3's CAN focus smoothly, can't they?

[SteveM(PA)]

I got my stiff-focusing '83 J3 back from it's Fedka CLA today. The focusing is just as stiff and dry as it was when I sent it. Aperture blades have the same oil on them too. The lens had been back focusing (see the fountain pic in my gallery). Don't have test results back yet. The glass and barrel are so perfect, and I want this lens to be my "one-lens kit." I don't know why an un-abused lens like this couldn't be made to focus smoothly. Oh and just as a HU, Yuri's CLA is listed as $35, but $7 additional is added for return shipping. Could add up if sending multiple lenses, I guess. I have some more I wanted to send, but this is leaving me a little cold. 😕

 

[FrankS]

I'm very lucky to have a Brian Sweeney cla/adjusted J3. I think Kim Coxen works on them as well.

 

[JohnM]

I would send it back.

Clean, lubricate and adjust means clean, lubricate and adjust. It should focus smoothly and the aperture blades really should be cleaned.

 

[w3rk5]

I would contact Fedka and let them know. You paid for a service that hasn't been performed. Unless his definition of CLA is different than what we might expect. I'd like to know what they would do to address this. I hope things work out for you.

My J-3 didn't have any issues except for cosmetics and stiff focusing. I followed Kim's instructions on how to do a CLA. Now it has the right amount of resistance.

 

[Buze]

I think J3 (like J9s) design of the (otherwise lovely) iris means they will more or less always have oily blades.. the grease very easily migrates there...

As for the barrel, I CLAed my J3 and it's smooth as butter ! So it is clearly not a design problem 😀

 

[Pherdinand]

The half pound old grease needs to be taken off, the helicoids cleaned up wiped with stg like ethanol to get rid of the aluminum/brass powder mixed with the green yak snot and then the whole thing needs a good generous lubrication (to make up for the fabrication tolerances) with a good, modern grease.
Obviously this did not happen to your lens. I'd say life is too short to mess around with a repair person who forgot to do the thing you payed him for. Pick someone else.

 

[Kim Coxon]

Thanks for the comments on the instructions.

I would contact Fedka and let them know. You paid for a service that hasn't been performed. Unless his definition of CLA is different than what we might expect. I'd like to know what they would do to address this. I hope things work out for you.

My J-3 didn't have any issues except for cosmetics and stiff focusing. I followed Kim's instructions on how to do a CLA. Now it has the right amount of resistance.

As to the issues of a J3. Oil on the blades of an RF lens is not a problem as there is no auto/semi-auto mech. If I have a lens in pieces, I will normally clean the blades if accessible purely for the looks but otherwise I would not consider it part of a CLA on such a lens. The focus issue is different. If the infinity was out on an FSU camera, there is a problem that needs to be addressed. If it is close focussing problem on a non-FSU camera, I would not class that as part of a "normal" CLA unless asked to collimate the lens. Many of the J3's and more so the J9's are stiff because of the construction due to the extra helix's. It should, however, be smooth.

I would contact Fedka and see what they say but I suspect you might not like the answer. If you still have issues afterwards, let me know and I will see if I can help.

Kim

 

[SteveM(PA)]

Thanks for the replies everybody, and thanks for the offer of help, Kim...I know you are very busy.

Just to give an idea of the stiffness..I have the lens mounted on my iiif (a heavy little camera) and with the camera sitting back-down on my desk here, if I turn the focus ring, the whole camera turns.

I will check the focus, and then make a gentle inquiry to Yuri as to what may have happened here.

 

[w3rk5]

Thanks for the comments on the instructions.

Thank you for making the instructions available. It helped me out several times.

 

[brachal]

If you're not happy, send an email to Yuri. His reputation for great customer service is well deserved, and I'm sure he'll try to make it right. The one time I had a problem with a fedka product (kiev 4am, ribbons broke the first day) he had a replacement on my porch within a week.

I hope this is just a fluke and not an indication of a problem with his repair guy -- I've got a Kiev 4a (cla, light leak) and a Fed 3 (broken shutter, cla) being worked on there now (along with a cla on the inudstar 61). I'll let y'all know how they come out.

 

[vanyagor]

Just to give an idea of the stiffness..I have the lens mounted on my iiif (a heavy little camera) and with the camera sitting back-down on my desk here, if I turn the focus ring, the whole camera turns.

Mine does too, however I would say I like the way it feels. It is not a problem to focus and I like the little tension I feel when rotating the lens. I guess it depends on the user. Probably 1 day I will disassemble and CLAD it but J3 is a too worthy for me to do it now all by myself 🙂

Good luck with your J3

 

[Nando]

My J3 was so stiff that I got cramps in my hands after I shot a test roll. I was told by the seller to put it in something warm for a few days so I put inside my computer case. It worked but it was still quite stiff and some rough spots were revealed.

My lens wasn't usable at f1,5. From f2,8 up, it performed very well.

I sent my lens to Brian Sweeney and he did an excellent job with it. It's now one of my favourite lenses. Brian made it focus accurately and the focusing ring now very smooth.

My example looked like it was never used. The glass was great and the lens was cosmetically perfect. When Brian took the lens apart he found evidence of an earlier repair that resulted in damage. He had a very hard time getting my lens back together as a result of the damage but he managed to do it. I suspect that the lens wasn't used much because the earlier botched-up repair and that's perhaps why the lens was in such great cosmetic condition. Perhaps it might be the case with your J3?

Best of luck with the J3. Once its sorted, you will love it!

 

[xayraa33]

I would contact Yuri and tell him how you feel about that J 3.
If it was CLA'd for real , I would expect smooth focus and a well
collimated lens, esp. at f 1.5 and close focus.
so far Fedka has a good reputation here on RFF and Yuri could lose a lot of customers from this forum's membership
if his people do shoddy or non existant work.

 

[SteveM(PA)]

Lens is definitely going back now, as I've just discovered it is still back focusing on my iiif. 🙁 I had told Yuri that I would be using the lens on my iiif, and to adjust for that, if necessary. The lens has some scratch marks now around the screws, so I assume it was opened. Right, I know Yuri seems to have a great reputation, so this whole thing is extra weird. Waiting now to hear back from him.

 

[FrankS]

Maybe he does not do all the work himself, and this lens was given to a worker who didn't so such a good job. You hate to see screwdriver scratches!

 

[SteveM(PA)]

Just to give an idea of the stiffness..I have the lens mounted on my iiif (a heavy little camera) and with the camera sitting back-down on my desk here, if I turn the focus ring, the whole camera turns.

I realize now it was stupid to quantify the lens' stiffness in this way, as I have a buttery smooth J8 in front of me here, and it's doing the same thing. Duh.

Let's just say the J3 is stiff in a dry, choppy, junked-up sort of way.

I just received a kind, concerned reply from Yuri, as I kind of thought I would. He is going to discuss the matter with his repair person and get back to me tomorrow.

 

[SteveM(PA)]

Yuri's latest email to me, followed by my response.

On Nov 12, 2006, at 12:23 PM, Fedka.com wrote:

Stephen,
I talked to the technician this morning.
He did lubricate the focusing threads and felt that the focusing action was
not stiff, but normal and smooth. This might be subjective, but this is what
he said.
Oil was left on the blades, as I correctly guessed because it is not
something they clean unless specifically requested.
The lens was out of calibration as far as back focus, and he had do modify
the spacer shims to adjust the lens. This was not bad, and without a
collimator you may not even see this, but this was done anyway.

It is possible to remove the oil, and probably possible to make the focusing
lighter, but the problem with close range focusing may not be even solvable.


Your lens is indeed a relatively uncommon, later, black version and I
understand that you want to use it. So I have a few questions and ideas.

1. Does it focus well at infinity? As medium ranges (10-20 feet)?
2. Does it focus at close ranges with closed aperture (f:2, f:4?) i.e. does
depth-of-field help?
3. Do you use other lenses, Russian or German, on your IIIf? If yes, do they
all focus correctly?

We came up with a few theories, but they won't help you much (I can
elaborate if you want). If the lens is usable for everything but close-ups,
just use it.

As far as CLA, I will refund your payment. Of course, you can send it back
and we'll clean the aperture blades and see if it is possible to make
focusing easier, but fixing 1m focusing does not look promising. There are
ways to do so on some other lenses, but not on this design.

Please le me know what you think.

Regards,
Yuri
Fedka.com


Thanks again for the detailed reply, Yuri. I am sad to hear the lens may not be fixable (as far as close focus). I've never had such a problem with any other lens. I have a J8, J12, J3 (1957, scratched glass), Summicron, I61, and even a giant Canon 135 3.5. I shoot them all mainly close up and wide open (please see the two enclosed shots, J8 and Canon 135, respectively). I wanted the J3 to achieve even shallower DOF, and I even bought an ND8 filter to use it in bright sun wide open. I wanted this lens to be my "one lens" kit, to be able to go from my FSU cameras to my leica iiif to my m3. It is not easy to find a screwmount 1.5 sonnar lens with pristine glass (and in black) for $100, or any price. If I can't use it close up and wide open, then the lens is useless to me.

As far as focusing, my '79 J8 (with the rotating focus module) is my lens by which I judge smoothness. It is buttery smooth, and this J3 is nowhere near it. It feels dry and bumpy. If, in your opinion, it is possible to get this lens as smooth as a smooth J8, then I would like to send it back for a re-lube. I will follow your advice about the aperture blades, and not be concerned about the oil on them.

So, if you were, hypothetically, to sell this lens on your site, would you sell it with a disclaimer, stating it can't focus close up wide open, or is this a characteristic that can be attributed to many J3's? If, after a possible re-lube, and after I conduct further tests and the lens is still misbehaving, I will put it on a shelf and treat it as a learning experience. But I don't think I would try to sell it to anyone with such a problem.

Thanks again,
Steve

 

[Kim Coxon]

Steve,
It will not be of much help but I have a similar late black J3 on the shelf. It looks superb. The focus action is slightly stiff but totally smooth and the glass is pristine. It too has a focus issue. With the earlier J3's including some of the black ones, it is possible to collimate the lens not to back focus. It generally involves moving the rear group forward and then thinning the main shims. With the very late models, (mine is an '87,) The rear group is cemented and cannot be shifted without major surgery on the lens. I don't know when the change occured but it would now appear it is before '83. Some time ago, I managed to get a couple of new, late J3s. Both of these are now in the hands of other RFF members and focussed perfectly throughout the range. Having spoken to Brian extensively on the subject a couple of years ago when he was doing the J3s, all the ones he worked on were earlier silver ones and these can be adjusted.

As I said perhaps no a lot of help but it does aggree with what Yuri has said. The only thing I might dispute is the smoothness of the lens. A J3 will never be as light as a J8 but it should be smooth. If it feels "dry and bumpy", it does seem as though there is old "yak spit" in there.

Regards
Kim

 

[SteveM(PA)]

Steve,
It will not be of much help but I have a similar late black J3 on the shelf. It looks superb. The focus action is slightly stiff but totally smooth and the glass is pristine. It too has a focus issue. With the earlier J3's including some of the black ones, it is possible to collimate the lens not to back focus. It generally involves moving the rear group forward and then thinning the main shims. With the very late models, (mine is an '87,) The rear group is cemented and cannot be shifted without major surgery on the lens. I don't know when the change occured but it would now appear it is before '83. Some time ago, I managed to get a couple of new, late J3s. Both of these are now in the hands of other RFF members and focussed perfectly throughout the range. Having spoken to Brian extensively on the subject a couple of years ago when he was doing the J3s, all the ones he worked on were earlier silver ones and these can be adjusted.

As I said perhaps no a lot of help but it does aggree with what Yuri has said. The only thing I might dispute is the smoothness of the lens. A J3 will never be as light as a J8 but it should be smooth. If it feels "dry and bumpy", it does seem as though there is old "yak spit" in there.

Regards
Kim

Wow...that is very interesting. And reason enough for me to put this whole thing to rest. Focus be damned...I'll be glad that it's stiff...who needs a smooth-focusing paperweight...Thanks Kim.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Hey Steve: for what it's worth, all Jupiters I've owned they've focused rather ok, sometimes a bit rough running here and there. The focusing on the J3 I got from B. Sweeney is just fine.