dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Addy101
Well-known
During the second world war (you know, when Britain fought the anti-Semitic Hitler) Jews initiated violent uprisings against the British Mandate in Palestine and in 1946, they blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of the British administration, killing 92 people. No, Jews aren't something special, they're just human - with some who are warmongers and some who are peace loving.
But when became this thread about Jews?
Anyway, Evelyn Beatrice Hall, biographer of Voltaire wrote in 1906 that Voltaire lived by "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". Whatever you think of Charlie Hebdo, it exercises the right of free speech as protected in the European Convention of Human Rights. There were lawsuits as happens in civilised countries. But you just don't kill people of something like a picture.
In that sense, Je Suis Charlie.
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Keith was referring directly to my comment in post #13
http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2434504&postcount=13
Dave
rhl-oregon
Cameras Guitars Wonders
I cherish my friend Johan's vision of what would have been a suitable reprisal against the cartoonists-- to burst in with a box of pencils and start throwing them indiscriminately!. If my mother had been there, she could have said Hey, stop that! You'll put someone 's eye out!
Alas that we do not inhabit such a world. The worst, as Yeats observed in another time of killings, are still full of passionate intensity.
But those who live by the Kalashnikov, or by any variant of blood-feudal eye-for-an-eye, will die by it.
Those who write a slogan of communal mourning, and stand together peaceably in public squares where the Kalashnikovs will have to shoot them all if they shoot one, may live in peace and maybe even love. Whether in Paris or Hong Kong, Beijing or Berlin or DC.
If you have a problem with some RFFer's opinion on politics, why not challenge him to a Skype showdown of Rock Paper Scissors? (Loser has to take a selfie with underwear on head and post it here.) Then try the same approach, in person! with anyone you think you have a "serious quarrel" with.
Think of it as sticking a flower into their gun barrel. Remember to smile when you say Je suis Charlie H, or I am Tienamen, or America I am the Scottsboro Boys. Hold hands with someone when you say it.
You'll feel better, and you'll probably do better too, by which I mean not try to kill someone with a #2 pencil because you think their imagination is to blame for all the mothers and children and grand-dads killed by Koranic Kalashnikovs or Bible-thumping cruise missiles.
;-)
Alas that we do not inhabit such a world. The worst, as Yeats observed in another time of killings, are still full of passionate intensity.
But those who live by the Kalashnikov, or by any variant of blood-feudal eye-for-an-eye, will die by it.
Those who write a slogan of communal mourning, and stand together peaceably in public squares where the Kalashnikovs will have to shoot them all if they shoot one, may live in peace and maybe even love. Whether in Paris or Hong Kong, Beijing or Berlin or DC.
If you have a problem with some RFFer's opinion on politics, why not challenge him to a Skype showdown of Rock Paper Scissors? (Loser has to take a selfie with underwear on head and post it here.) Then try the same approach, in person! with anyone you think you have a "serious quarrel" with.
Think of it as sticking a flower into their gun barrel. Remember to smile when you say Je suis Charlie H, or I am Tienamen, or America I am the Scottsboro Boys. Hold hands with someone when you say it.
You'll feel better, and you'll probably do better too, by which I mean not try to kill someone with a #2 pencil because you think their imagination is to blame for all the mothers and children and grand-dads killed by Koranic Kalashnikovs or Bible-thumping cruise missiles.
;-)
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kbg32
neo-romanticist
Jews didn't start the "unholy" war on the Palestinians. FYI, there was a Palestinian State formed out of the partition of 1948. There still could be one.
Jews at that time were not exempt from terrorism, especially against the British before they gave up their Mandate on Palestine.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Thanks Dave. I was also responding to Dominik's comments as well.
The Partition was supposed to create dual states with shared economic benefits, while self governing independently. A tough nut, but that was the solution at the time. Where Jew and Arab lived, they would become the citizen of that particular state.
f16sunshine
Moderator
Thank you Robert Hill Long 
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Keith,
The Midianites might disagree: Numbers, Chapter 31. At least those who survived: the "girl-children". Not just genocide but cheerful endorsement of paedophile rape. Regardless of who starts a war, crusade, genocide, etc., it's generally quite hard to say "Well you started it so we were fully justified in..."
Cheers,
R.
rhl-oregon
Cameras Guitars Wonders
Thank you Robert Hill Long
Je suis f16 Sunshine
Je suis Johan aka Buzzardkid:angel:
Oregon, Washington, and the Netherlands will never go to war over cartoons or words. They might however agree to smoke a peace pipe under the sign of the green cross.
Lawrence Sheperd
Well-known
Another view….
I'm glad that the original photo engendered a debate, and that in true RFF form, it has remained as civil as is probably possible on the interwebz.
I'm glad that the original photo engendered a debate, and that in true RFF form, it has remained as civil as is probably possible on the interwebz.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Je suis f16 Sunshine
Je suis Johan aka Buzzardkid:angel:
Oregon, Washington, and the Netherlands will never go to war over cartoons or words. They might however agree to smoke a peace pipe under the sign of the green cross.
You Betcha!
Thanks for the link, Roger. Made me laugh! And as the Dalai Lama said, 'people who laugh are able to change their minds'
kbg32
neo-romanticist
The Midianite women apparently were seducing Israeli men to worship the idol Baal. God took offense and instructed Moses to raise a army to destroy the Midianites.
Yes, it hard to say "well you started it....."
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Divinely inspired/approved genocide and paedophile rape in return for seductions and conversions (both presumably voluntary) sounds even less well-balanced than killing a dozen people in return for a few cartoons.
Cheers,
R.
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
"God took offence".Really? Prove it. As far as I'm aware, no god has ever shown himself or herself and left undisputable proof of existence.
I am so relieved to be an atheist. I bear no religion ANY malice but, as no religion is based on or can demonstrate any empirical proof of their god's existence or power, I would much rather place my "faith" in what can be proven as scientific fact than ANY religious belief system.
I am definitely not aware of any attacks or wars being waged on anyone by fundamentalist atheists.
The act perpetrated against this French magazine is abhorrent, reprehensible and utterly unjustifiable in any respect or at any level, in my opinion. It matters not one iota whose religion is used as the excuse to carry out such an atrocity. It is just further proof that religion - and there are many examples throughout recorded history - can be used as a means of mind control for evil purposes as well as forces for charity and good.
I am so relieved to be an atheist. I bear no religion ANY malice but, as no religion is based on or can demonstrate any empirical proof of their god's existence or power, I would much rather place my "faith" in what can be proven as scientific fact than ANY religious belief system.
I am definitely not aware of any attacks or wars being waged on anyone by fundamentalist atheists.
The act perpetrated against this French magazine is abhorrent, reprehensible and utterly unjustifiable in any respect or at any level, in my opinion. It matters not one iota whose religion is used as the excuse to carry out such an atrocity. It is just further proof that religion - and there are many examples throughout recorded history - can be used as a means of mind control for evil purposes as well as forces for charity and good.
HuubL
hunter-gatherer
Hear, hear!!
Addy101
Well-known
Well, let me enlighten you:
WWII started with the atheïst Nazi regime invading Poland.
Communist troops invaded South-Korea.
Communist regimes around the world suppressed religion with violence. The worst being the North-Korean and the Cambodian ("Killing-fields") regimes.
Atheist Sri Lankan Tamil Tigers have targeted Muslims and Buddhists.
Supporters of the Spanish Republican government attacked and murdered Roman Catholic clergy during the civil war.
People often think their specific belief system (and atheism is a belief system) is the exception to the sometimes violent nature of man - but that is of course an illusion.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
I don't condone either Roger. Possibly Bill Maher has it right about religion in general.
As well, read umbers 31:7-18. The Midianite women were raped? Theoretically they could have, but rape was a violation of law. I guess it depends what you read and how you interpret.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
I seem to recall a story about a "burning bush". It's in the Old Testament.
Sparrow
Veteran
"I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "The Burning Bush is a dead giveaway. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
With credit to the late great Douglas Adams