Joni Mitchell, David Crosby and printing

[Michael Markey]

Hi Cal

These aren`t hipsters ....I`m not sure that we have them here in the north 🙂
Just young photographers doing well on the UK club competition circuit.

They feel that printing hasn`t made the advances in terms of resolution ect that cameras have don`t want their work "degraded".

Myself I only print 5x7 for archival purposes and I let Ilford do that for me.

I keep them in black portfolio boxes from Silverprint but wouldn`t care to have them on the wall.

http://shop.silverprint.co.uk/Silverprint-Archival-Portfolio-Box-5x7-Inch/product/4227/AS1109/

I do have two of my shots hanging but that`s only because Stewart (Sparrow) arranged to have them printed for me.

Michael

 

[kxl]

He said that Joni Mitchell told him a thought only exists if you write it down.

An image doesn't exist unless there is a hard copy - on film and/or on print.

🙂

I disagree with both statements...

A thought exists in and of itself and has meaning or significance only for that person. It may be fleeting and may even be forgotten, but for a brief period, the thought did exist. When it is recorded via song, literature or other media, then the thought is propagated. Its meaning or significance can then be inferred or interpreted by its audience.

Same with an image. An image exists in and of itself if only as a memory. An image of deep personal meaning and significance lives on in a person's memory. It is not seen by others but it does exist. As with a thought, an image may then be recorded for others to interpret.

 

[Calzone]

Hi Cal

These aren`t hipsters ....I`m not sure that we have them here in the north 🙂
Just young photographers doing well on the UK club competition circuit.

They feel that printing hasn`t made the advances in terms of resolution ect that cameras have don`t want their work "degraded".

Myself I only print 5x7 for archival purposes and I let Ilford do that for me.

I keep them in black portfolio boxes from Silverprint but wouldn`t care to have them on the wall.

http://shop.silverprint.co.uk/Silverprint-Archival-Portfolio-Box-5x7-Inch/product/4227/AS1109/

I do have two of my shots hanging but that`s only because Stewart (Sparrow) arranged to have them printed for me.

Michael

Michael,

My experience has been the other way around: a CRT, calibrated monitor, computer display or cell phone degrades the image.

My friend Joe gave me a file to print. The image was taken within Central Park and it was a remarkable exposure that did not blow out the skyscrappers near Columbus Circle. Joe used a Leica Monochrom to create this file.

When I printed this file I took note of a squirrel that was near Joe hidden in the shadows in the foreground. I didn't remember seeing a squirrel in the foreground when I viewed the same image on my EIZO (dimmed down to 80 LUX and in a darkened room), so I kinda had an epiphany of sorts: I can print what I can't see.

Know that I print B&W using Piezography, so I'm printing with 7 shades of black. Also know that I was comparing a 13x17 print to my 27 inch screen on my EIZO, so the image size was almost the same.

I have the new Piezography Pro which has the capabilities to print digital negatives on transparent overhead projection film for contact printing to make silver wet prints. This is without having to do any ink changes. This technology is available to me, and I'm not Salgado using the best photo lab in Paris.

Perhaps in the realm of B&W these younger photographers are very-very mistaken.

It is alright with me if they like using a computer screen to best display their work, but...

Cal

 

[PKR]

PKR,

Hidden from view, my guess is a good print will surprise someone one day when they open that box. That print might be discovered a few hundred years from now. Not really sure if stuff posted on the Internet will endure or in a way is just a passing moment.

Not all prints have a voice and speak, especially in solitude. I do see your point.

Cal

Find a public place to hang your prints. I found a local library willing to hang mine when young (20s). Remain anonymous if you wish.

I'm not a big fan of posting anything on the web. In my case, I would be asking for unwanted bs. But, prints are a completely different matter. Explore inexpensive, reusable framing options. Your host, will want them framed. If hung in restaurants, they will have food on them in time. Visit regularly and clean them. It's PR, but, you have control. I've seen some extremely expensive art hung in a restaurant, owned by a pal of the artist, before the work was scheduled for a yearly one man show. A couple were purchased (paintings at $15-40k ea 1990 money) by restaurant customers (through the gallery) before the scheduled show.

Get out there before you're old and regret not moving on your work. Some may not like some or all of your work.. I find that I don't like some, not all, of my work. No big deal.

You are one of the few serious photographers on here. My advice, as another serious photographer is.. don't sit on your ass, life is short. It's worth the effort for the people you will meet in the process.

Best, pkr

PM me for further nagging ..

 

[Bob Michaels]

What you say is true. I guess for me a computer screen, a cell phone, and the internet is not the best way to exhibit my work.

In the realm of fine art photography though the skill of the photographer and the image is conveyed via printing.

A computer screen, a cell phone, and even an optimized calibrated monitor simplifies the image I can print.

For impact I like printing large...

Cal

Certainly there is no "one size fits all" answer. Different styles seem to speak best with different presentation methods. And, in turn, our bias towards a particular presentation method seems to influence our style.

I must say that I do believe in the necessity to publicly display your work, either prints on a public wall or on line. That concept took several years for a valued mentor to hammer into my head but I finally got it. Photography is one of many means of communication and communication requires a receiver.

 

[ptpdprinter]

When I printed this file I took note of a squirrel that was near Joe hidden in the shadows in the foreground. I didn't remember seeing a squirrel in the foreground when I viewed the same image on my EIZO (dimmed down to 80 LUX and in a darkened room), so I kinda had an epiphany of sorts: I can print what I can't see.

Was the squirrel not visible on your screen or do you just not remember seeing it? Now that you have seen the squirrel in the print, can you now see it on the screen? Your say your EIZO is dimmed down to 80 LUX, but is it calibrated to your printer at 80 LUX?

 

[PKR]

Certainly there is no "one size fits all" answer. Different styles seem to speak best with different presentation methods. And, in turn, our bias towards a particular presentation method seems to influence our style.

I must say that I do believe in the necessity to publicly display your work, either prints on a public wall or on line. That concept took several years for a valued mentor to hammer into my head but I finally got it. Photography is one of many means of communication and communication requires a receiver.

With you're choice of media for public viewing, you can take your show on the road .. back to Cuba? I would love to see the real time reaction of those people in your audience.

A very smart move. You're sure to be rewarded with many smiles.

 

[gns]

... Photography is one of many means of communication and communication requires a receiver.

For others, could it be something else? A means of exploration, say?

 

[Bob Michaels]

..................
My friend Joe gave me a file to print. The image was taken within Central Park and it was a remarkable exposure that did not blow out the skyscrappers near Columbus Circle. Joe used a Leica Monochrom to create this file.

When I printed this file I took note of a squirrel that was near Joe hidden in the shadows in the foreground. I didn't remember seeing a squirrel in the foreground when I viewed the same image on my EIZO (dimmed down to 80 LUX and in a darkened room), so I kinda had an epiphany of sorts: I can print what I can't see...................l

As this is a philosophical discussion, I must ask how important is the squirrel to the overall purpose of the photograph?

 

[Baby of Macon]

Without prejudice to the accuracy of the reported David Crosby statement, my interpretation of that statement is that Joni Mitchell was asserting that a thought only exists when it is crystallised in some kind of visible form. The suggestion that the reported Joni Mitchell statement affirms that prints are more valid than digital images is a syllogistic fallacy.

I also suspect that Joni was offering an opinion on the classic exestential question of "if a tree fall in a forest"....

 

[sevres_babylone]

Who would have thought that when David Crosby wrote Everybody's Been Burned he was talking about final touches on a print.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Cute statement but I'm not sure I can accept that Joni Mitchell (or David Crosby) qualifies as a guru. She may have only been considering lyrics for her next song and David was stoned enough to listen.

How many great orators have challenged and motivated people over the centuries though their speeches or thoughts were never written down? Or the magnificent stories passed on by oral story tellers that Homer never had a chance to hear or to commit to papyrus?

I guess according to Joni none of that counts unless you had pencil and paper (or stylus and clay.) Language and the ability to relate thoughts has been around far, far longer than the ability to write them down.

Like most things that pop artists say, if you give them any serious thought they fall apart. I think it is probably better to enjoy their voices and their music rather than grant them great credibility as serious thinkers.

I think that depends on one's definition of a pop artist and on the artist in question, doesn't it?
Eg was Leonard Cohen a "pop artist"? I'm not sure he was, at least, not in the usual context of what most people might consider "pop" music. But he was certainly an artist, and a deep thinker. That's an opinion I've formed myself, and also have on good authority from a mutual friend. Same goes for David Bowie, who definitively was a pop artist. On the other hand I have absolutely no interest in anything Eg Kanye West might have to say. He's presented more than adequate proof to persuade me he's a goose. Actually, we've kept geese for years, and I'd much prefer to keep their company to Wests, for their personality, as much as their brains.

 

[Pioneer]

All I know for sure is that you characters have made me go digging for my old Crosby, Stills and Nash albums.

Could be worse I guess.

Now...where did I hide the turntable?

 

[webOSUser]

I think that Joni Mitchell was thinking about writing down bits of inspiration before they are forgotten and lost.

 

[Jack Conrad]

Who's Joni Mitchell?

 

[Huss]

Who's Joni Mitchell?

Bill and Myrtle Anderson's daughter.

 

[Pioneer]

Bill and Myrtle Anderson's daughter.

😀

...a few more characters...

 

[icebear]

"It's not a photo until it's printed."
(motto of my local camera store)

Viewing images on a good, calibrated monitor is one thing, having a large print (at least 12 inch short edge plus border) on a high quality paper is a totally different thing.

Show me a monitor that let's you see the entire frame at 100 or 200% view😉.

 

[Pioneer]

"It's not a photo until it's printed."
(motto of my local camera store)

Viewing images on a good, calibrated monitor is one thing, having a large print (at least 12 inch short edge plus border) on a high quality paper is a totally different thing.

Show me a monitor that let's you see the entire frame at 100 or 200% view😉.

I need a magnifying glass to see the print at 200% so I still can't see the entire frame. Your eyes may vary. 😀

...and my Eizo may just fit a 12x24 print at 100% if I get rid of everything around the edges. I've never tried.

 

[robert blu]

Interesting thread. When I first read it my reaction was "yes, I agree 100%, a photo must be printed to be a photo!". Now, after I read all the comments and I thought a little bit more I'm still of the same idea if I consider my work, I like to print and even make small hand made booklets, but this is me.
I think photographers can be very effective in conveying ideas or emotions even when they are used in an audiovisual show for instance. Maybe you like it or not but is one of the media in our era.
This brought me to think when a photo is part of a project then it exists printed or not.

robert

PS: but I like to print...and editing...and sequencing...if you are curious go here !