Jupiter-9 and Leica M question

[psychoanima]

Hey guys,

I am investigating about this lens but there is a lot of disagreements on internet.

I found that throughout the years Jupiter-9 was assembled in different factories. Not only that but it has more than one mount version, but I am specifically curious about LTM mount.

I own Leica M9 and in my collection I already have Jupiter-8 and Jupiter-12/ They both work flawlessly on my M. However I read on some places that J-9 is not accurate in focusing on Leica camera because it was made for Zenit with LTM mount.

Does anyone, from their own experience, knows if there is any version of J-9 that will work "normally" on M leica, like J-3, 8 and 12 does?

 

[S.H.]

Don't buy a M39 Zenit SLR mount, but a LTM mount and it should be OK with a LTM-M adapter, if the lens is well made.

Zenit


Leica


Both have M39 screw threads, but one is designed to work with a Zenit SLR (no RF coupling, shorter mount to clear the mirror), the other with a Leica-type body.

Hard to nail the focus at f2 though...

 

[farlymac]

Some good information at this site. There definitely was an LTM version, so you can use the photos to cross reference with what you might find on any auction/sale site.


PF

 

[santino]

Keep in mind that even an J9 designed for Zorki cameras will get you into trouble when shooting wide open. The fsu LTM is the same as Leica‘s but the lenses are calibrated to Contax standards.

 

[Scrambler]

This is a factor of the longer focus of the J-9 and the potential for narrow focal plane linked to the roughly 1% difference in FSU vs Leica standard focal difference.

This also means that if you 1) use smaller apertures (larger numbers) and 2) longer distances, you will be fine. This second because infinity is the same for both Leica and FSU standards.

On the other hand, if you go for the classic 'bokelicious' portrait at close focus, only the pupil sharp, your focus will be off. This is because it is well away from the equal point (infinity) and the margin of error (depth of focus) is narrow.

So make your call. The consensus view is that anything under 50mm is fine, that 50mm is marginal esp with fast lenses, and that anything longer than 50mm needs to be seriously slow for the depth of focus to cover the variation on focus. But remembers that all FSU rangefinder lenses, at all apertures, are correct at infinity on a Leica. So if you do landscapes, ignore the general advice and buy the lens.

 

[psychoanima]

Thanks for fast response guys!


So if I shoot wide open portraits it will suffer from focus shifting similar to Jupiter 3? Will finding "sweet spot" by shifting more or less do the trick?

Attracted by sexy bokeh wide open, I would mostly use it for landscapes. I found for the same money Leitz Elmar 9cm f4, but I am not sure how decent it is for portraits (Although I have 50mm nokton 1.5 for portraits)

From what I found so far advantages of J-9 over Elmar 9cm is a lot smaller size and bigger (not sure how much useful) aperture.

 

[xayraa33]

I had a factory new very late made LTM Black J-9 that was totally unusable focus wise...it needed severe shimming as it was not even close to being adjusted when it left the factory .

The older J-9s from the 1960s had much better QC....but I would go with an M42 J-9 for SLR use to really nail the focus and avoid RF focus problems.

 

[newst]

Thanks for fast response guys!


So if I shoot wide open portraits it will suffer from focus shifting similar to Jupiter 3? Will finding "sweet spot" by shifting more or less do the trick?

Attracted by sexy bokeh wide open, I would mostly use it for landscapes. I found for the same money Leitz Elmar 9cm f4, but I am not sure how decent it is for portraits (Although I have 50mm nokton 1.5 for portraits)

From what I found so far advantages of J-9 over Elmar 9cm is a lot smaller size and bigger (not sure how much useful) aperture.

The Leitz Elmar 4/90, and the Canon LTM 3.5/100 will both be great portrait lenses on a Leica/Canon/Nicca/Bessa etc. LTM camera. While you won't have the minimal plane of focus that the larger aperture of the J-9 provides, but you won't have the back/front focus issues either. You could also look for the Voigtlander APO Lanthar 90mm or color heliar 75mm if you want to spend a bit more, While the Canon and Elmar have the benefit of being far less expensive than the run of non-Soviet LTM lenses. All will render portraits beautifully.

 

[farlymac]

If you want to use FSU LTM lenses on a rangefinder camera, then get an FSU camera too. The FED-2c has a long rangefinder base, combined view/rangefinder, flash sync, a removable back for easier film loading, and finder diopter control for use without eyeglasses. The Zorki-6 has a shorter rangefinder base, but adds lever film winding, and a swing open camera back for even easier film loading.


And you won't have to worry about that 1% flange distance issue.


PF

 

[rcubed]

I found that putting a small paper/tape shim before screwing on a LTM-M adapter on my J-9 mitigates any focus inaccuracies on my copy. The lens results in being slightly canted to one side (kind of like how the Canon LTM lenses would be).

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The later Black Jupiter-9 in LTM has a secondary shim for the rear triplet. Removing it, moving the triplet in closer to the front section will reduce the focal length. After that, you need to reduce the main shim. The closer you can get the actual focal length to 83.2mm, the better focus will be across range. This is the focal length at which a Jupiter-9 Cam will agree with the Leica rangefinder, calibrated for 51.6mm.

I looked at this about a year ago, and did some calculations in Fortran. 83.2mm was the number that the movement of the cam on the J-9 matched the upper curve.

CAMRATIO by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

TRAVEL by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

Jupiter-9, Wide-Open by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

The Other way to do this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FOTOFOX-RF...o-Leica-Mount-SM-M39-L39-Adapter/283341769316

Buy a Contax/Kiev mount Jupiter-9 and get an adapter. I use the above adapter on my CZJ Triotar. You might need to adjust the main shim of the J-9. The adapter translates the 270degree motion required to go from 0.9m to infinity to travel on the Cam. It's an LTM adapter, so the LTM-M adapter is used to bring up the proper framelines.