rxmd
May contain traces of nut
I don't know, the M5 was a pretty revolutionary photographic tool (but didn't get the goodwill of the customers). The DMR was a revolutionary photographic tool.
The M8 is a pretty revolutionary photographic tool too in its own right, it's only that nowadays people are rather price-sensitive about these things and are used to DSLRs. What's revolutionary about the M8 is IMHO not so much that it's a digital rangefinder but the way how it tries to unify the appeal to tradition with the desire to incorporate technical progress. I'm under the impression that this is somewhat rare in the photographic world (another example being the Nikon FM3a).
I'm skeptical about "dreams come true" because still not everybody that talks about their dreams would buy it in the end. But it would certainly be interesting.
Philipp
tomasis
Well-known
Let us compare for car analogies. Quality of japanese cars is unquestionable, often problem free for quite long time. German cars can fail sometimes and didn't good for 10 years ago compared to the current ones. Now the new cars are vastly improved and still cost premium prices. Much more expensive than japanese ones. So why people still buy some german cars if there are less expensive cars like chinese made or korean . Is it only for look or feeling of quality for the extra price?
So I hope that updated M8 will be improved and could be robust for many years. I like Leica's decision on M8 which is the lack of AA filter. I don't mind purple since I shoot B&W. I love brass top and real big viewfinder. I like CCD sensor because it looks for me that this produces quite of richer tones compared to cmos. Even the high iso is not good, lets hope for improved firmware and software during a few years. Silent shutter is great option
S
Socke
Guest
No, I came here for the FSU cameras and some Contax G talk. Back then the Leica people where on another site where one better didn't mention anything non Leica.
Then I had already traded my IIIf for something else, the only camera I ever gave away
S
Socke
Guest
Yes, they are the only company making a digital rangefinder. Others have either no interest or think it is undoable.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Ororaro
Well-known
No, I came here for the FSU cameras and some Contax G talk. Back then the Leica people where on another site where one better didn't mention anything non Leica.
Then I had already traded my IIIf for something else, the only camera I ever gave away
By "here" I meant the Leica-M forum and RFF by extent.
Ororaro
Well-known
It's going to take me the rest of the day to recover from reading that Ned!
Well it's true, Noct-Nikkor, 28 1.4, 85 1.4, 200 f2 among others. All superb but just too mainstream
I have to add that I purchased the Noct and 28 1.4 way before the modern craze when they we're widely available, when people didn't want to touch them with a long and dirty stick supporting a dirty smelly underwear at the tip. I went into all kinds of "fights" featuring those "overpriced" lenses, all similar to the Noctilux discussion happening here.
I have to applaud myself for having lens flair *clap*clap*clap*
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Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Any digital rangefinder with interchangeble lenses that is NOT M-mount is doomed to fail! There are 100's of 000's of M mount and LTM lenses out there and to try to introduce a "dedicated" mount would not work.
Leica will survive a Nikon/Zeiss/VC/Hexar whatever digital. Their product line is still very good. However, they do not have access to sensors like the D3 technology and it is unlikely that Nikon will pass it on to them.
The M-mount is not protected by patent anymore and anyone can use it!
The "coding" of M-lenses is seemlngly tied in with the sensor in the M8 rather than with digital in general. Nikon or whoever makes the next DRf can easily include coding as a menu driven option.
Sensor size is critical. To launch a D-size or 4/3 sensor would be stupid as two years from now, the full size sensor will be the industrial standard and prices will come down dramatically in the next while.
Mp is of less importance as a12-15MP will do a very good job as it is. The critical part is a low-noise/high ISO sensor (D3 type, 3200/6400 ISO with very little noise).
What probably will happen (and I can be completly wrong here) is that we will get a couple of new entries in this field. A revamped M8 (big bucks and a limited market), another slightly lower priced Drf from a major player (Dont forget that Sony is in this game for the long haul too) and possibly (and hopefully) a RD-1 type Rf with upgraded sensor and better screen (though I would love to keep the "fold in" version of it).
Price range would be $6-8000 for the top of the line "M9" with an expensive name tag.
Second tier (pricewise) $ 4000-5000 all bells and whistles camera and a sub $2500 revised RD-1 type.
A Nikon M-mount is not as farfetched as we think as in 1946-47 they were contemplating a 39mm screw mount Rf rather than the Contax cloned one! Of course Nikon could easily supply an adapter for use of the Nikkor RF lenses on a body like that - and with electronic focus confirmaton, there could even be a SLR lens adapter (within reson - maybe up to a 180 fl).
My feeling is that between the Rd-1 and the M8 the RD-1 was the better camera from an ergonomic standpoint - particularly if you came from "classic" rangefinder back ground. The M8 is not as well designed in this aspect. It is slippery and cramps you hand, particularly with heavy lenses. You really dont want to drop that "M9" and the f0.95/50mm Noctilux!!!!!!
A DRf with a D3 capabiliry sensor for high ISO would also make the ultra high speed lenses less essential. If you can boost your ISO to 6400 and get ISO 1600 quality - why drag a F1 or faster around?
Leica will survive a Nikon/Zeiss/VC/Hexar whatever digital. Their product line is still very good. However, they do not have access to sensors like the D3 technology and it is unlikely that Nikon will pass it on to them.
The M-mount is not protected by patent anymore and anyone can use it!
The "coding" of M-lenses is seemlngly tied in with the sensor in the M8 rather than with digital in general. Nikon or whoever makes the next DRf can easily include coding as a menu driven option.
Sensor size is critical. To launch a D-size or 4/3 sensor would be stupid as two years from now, the full size sensor will be the industrial standard and prices will come down dramatically in the next while.
Mp is of less importance as a12-15MP will do a very good job as it is. The critical part is a low-noise/high ISO sensor (D3 type, 3200/6400 ISO with very little noise).
What probably will happen (and I can be completly wrong here) is that we will get a couple of new entries in this field. A revamped M8 (big bucks and a limited market), another slightly lower priced Drf from a major player (Dont forget that Sony is in this game for the long haul too) and possibly (and hopefully) a RD-1 type Rf with upgraded sensor and better screen (though I would love to keep the "fold in" version of it).
Price range would be $6-8000 for the top of the line "M9" with an expensive name tag.
Second tier (pricewise) $ 4000-5000 all bells and whistles camera and a sub $2500 revised RD-1 type.
A Nikon M-mount is not as farfetched as we think as in 1946-47 they were contemplating a 39mm screw mount Rf rather than the Contax cloned one! Of course Nikon could easily supply an adapter for use of the Nikkor RF lenses on a body like that - and with electronic focus confirmaton, there could even be a SLR lens adapter (within reson - maybe up to a 180 fl).
My feeling is that between the Rd-1 and the M8 the RD-1 was the better camera from an ergonomic standpoint - particularly if you came from "classic" rangefinder back ground. The M8 is not as well designed in this aspect. It is slippery and cramps you hand, particularly with heavy lenses. You really dont want to drop that "M9" and the f0.95/50mm Noctilux!!!!!!
A DRf with a D3 capabiliry sensor for high ISO would also make the ultra high speed lenses less essential. If you can boost your ISO to 6400 and get ISO 1600 quality - why drag a F1 or faster around?
S
Socke
Guest
When I joined RFF there was no Leica M forum.
Ororaro
Well-known
I wasn't talking about you. Happy now?
aizan
Veteran
oh where, oh where can my DMD be? oh where, oh where can it be?
AlanG
Alan Goldstein
Won't they be able to buy a similar sensor from Sony? And what about the upcoming 24 megapixel sensor from Sony?
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
They may.
And they may not.
Who knows where Sony intends the sensor to go but I would suspect, seeing as how Sony also has a line of SLR cameras now, that they may leave it there and not pass along the technology. If Leica is lucky, has deep enough pockets, and can wine/dine Sony; who knows what can happen, but now we're starting to go wild with speculation again
That said, 24MP in a full frame sensor; oy... I'm beginning to think that whole megapixel race that seems to plague the p&s cameras may be creeping in more and more into the SLR arena.
There's a limited amount of "space" on the sensor so packing more and more information on to that space, unless the processing of the information is going to be top notch, can potentially lead to noise and/or moire issues.
Dave
Mackinaw
Think Different
Nikon buys their sensors from Sony so I guess Leica could too, if they wish.
veraikon
xpanner
Sony is a Carl Zeiss´Partner.
V
varjag
Guest
Fred, SP is 1950s news. More an exercise in corporate pride than an attempt to make any profit from sales.
No I don't doubt Nikon could put out great modern rangefinder if they wanted to, but I don't see why would they want that.
No I don't doubt Nikon could put out great modern rangefinder if they wanted to, but I don't see why would they want that.