KEH.COM - total disregard for the customer

[dll927]

I have never done business with KEH, so I'll avoid comments on that. But the original poster says that "I think it was the same lens I sent back". Ever hear of serial numbers?

Since I moved from the Los Angeles area, which has its share of photo stores, I have stuck to B&H.

 

[Jon Perry]

One of the down sides to cheaper online shopping is the 'shop' staff no longer deal with human beings face to face, just electronic invoice numbers. They no longer view the purchaser as being a person who may well have photographer friends and collegues that could be buying from them as well.

When I started up in business, the first thing I was told is "never underestimate the value of word of mouth". The second thing was "reputation can go both ways ... up and down"

It's a shame this shop seems to have forgotten this.

Jon

 

[MCTuomey]

unlucky experience by the OP

my experience with keh has been excellent - about 8 purchases over the last two-three years with a couple of returns that were processed promptly, but without any shipping refund

now i don't get too excited about shipping costs to/fro unless we're talking major pkg size

what to infer from the OP's anecdote, my anecdote, others' anecdotes?

like many merchants, keh makes mistakes sometimes and does right well most of the time. generally they're a good resource in the used market, i think.

as i pick through the second-hand shops where I find most of my gear, I don't get too upset at perceived mistreatment. life is short and i'd rather get on with it than righteously indignant about it. keeps me calm, less shaking of hands while shooting ...

 

[akptc]

...But the original poster says that "I think it was the same lens I sent back". Ever hear of serial numbers? ...

- are those them little tiny digits around the front rim? darnit, knew I was missing something...

Seriously though, does anyone check and record the SN of every item they buy? I just looked it up on the paperwork that accompanied each lens, they are different SNs.

 

[akptc]

unlucky experience by the OP ... as i pick through the second-hand shops where I find most of my gear, I don't get too upset at perceived mistreatment. life is short and i'd rather get on with it than righteously indignant about it. keeps me calm, less shaking of hands while shooting ...

Totally agree with your attitude... until I get realy mad, that is 🙂 One thing that helps sometimes is being able to whine to others about "perceived mistreatment". Well, that and a good beer to forget about it..

 

[jan normandale]

Hey Andy , I'm still enjoying that camera I got from you some time back.

The problem with all online stores is their inventory is separated from the sales staff. The staff that catalogue inventory on line also are not the fastest to note a lens has been sold or perhaps even enters the wrong colour. So the sales rep can only go with what they see on the screen. Who are they going to believe if they are to do their job?

Additionally the sales staff are knowledgeable but they get lost when dealing with experts in arcane photographica. IE “the 4 generation second run of the un aspherical lens with the Nikon bayonet mount not the Lieca bayonet mount with a serial number series starting with the alpha character G ….. oh yeah and in silver not black”.

Even now my eyes glaze over at RFF when this starts. Imagine this 8 hours a day… mistakes happen.

I know personally that I have ordered items and then found out the item I purchased on line was sold over the phone but not recorded when I made the on line purchase. Similarly I ordered a camera from the inventory over the phone and the sales rep had no such item on his inventory screen (which is different from the web version). He went ‘looking’ and found the item!

It’s like ordering from Sears, or Ford…. They shoot for customer satisfaction but don’t always achieve it.

 

[MCTuomey]

Totally agree with your attitude... until I get realy mad, that is 🙂 One thing that helps sometimes is being able to whine to others about "perceived mistreatment". Well, that and a good beer to forget about it..

yeah, andy, i agree. the beer really helps. which explains why my cat's named guinness and i toast my inbound packages before i open 'em 🙂

 

[akptc]

Hey Andy , I'm still enjoying that camera I got from you some time back. ….

Hi Jan, very glad to hear it, I do sometimes wonder how the gear I’ve parted with is doing.

…It’s like ordering from Sears, or Ford…. They shoot for customer satisfaction but don’t always achieve it.

I am with you on that, by all means. The thing is that in this specific case, the guy told me on the phone that he was holding in his hand the black lens I wanted, I heard him open the box and pull out what I assumed was the lens, unwrap the plastic and then assure me he had the right lens. he then “marked it” and “put it aside” to be shipped to me. How it got from that to “we don’t have any lenses like that” is what puzzles me.

I know the mail-order sales environment well. While in college, I used to sell computer gear for two large outfits. We had sales folks, including myself, who went to extremes to make sure the customer was happy. Sure, it cost us some friction with the mail-room staff, sometimes even with the floor managers, but – we got the most repeat clients too. I recall one day one of those repeat clients called, asked for me, and bought a few large-capacity Seagate hard drives – the commission paid for my semester tuition, books, and nearly enough beer to last a semester. Well, anyway, I am all calmed down now, life goes on, there’ll be other opportunities to snag this lens… (if anyone has one for sale, pls PM me..)

… the beer really helps. which explains why my cat's named guinness and i toast my inbound packages before I open 'em 🙂

– I need a membership in that club! 😀

All the more reason to appreciate good service! I got the wrong color lens from Camerquest once. Stephen refunded my money in full before I had even sent the lens back to him. No questions asked.

Mr. Gandy’s service has always been impeccable, in my experience. I’ve recommended him to many of my friends, would do it again.

Well, time to move on. Just got my new 5-Million Dollar Home, very cool.

 

[BillBingham2]

I am shocked that KEH did that. I've only bought one lens years ago and was very happy. I am looking for a user SP and I promise to not look there again. They have one, but with that attitude, no way.

So it's hard to come by, who cares? I know margins are tight, but that is crap. If they really wanted you for a customer they should have found one and got it to you. Let you keep the chrome till they go you the one you want.

They have lost at least two customers for life, you and me.

I had a great experience with a ebay vendor, got the wrong camera (order F2A and a 28, got a Black F2 Photomic no lens). My camera went to Japan. He refunded my money (100%) and let me keep the camera!!! There are good sellers out there, we just need to keep sharing.

Stephen Gandy is a great guy, I know anyone I send his way will be treated right.

Thanks for sharing.

B2 (;->

 

[ChrisPlatt]

I always ask KEH to pull the item I am interested in from inventory.
This reserves the item for me, pending my approval.

When I call the salesperson back the next day, they will examine
and describe the actual item, answering any questions I may have.

I have bought many items this way, and turned down a few, too.
It adds a day to the order process, but IMO it's worth the wait...

"Excelsior, you fathead!"
-Chris-

 

[raid]

I bought from Keh 2 days ago an item online, followed by another item yesterday. I then sent them an email asking them to consider combining shipping cost for the two items. Today, I received an email from KEH informing me that the first order was already shipped, but they would waive the shipping cost on the second order. This is good service.

Raid

 

[akptc]

Bill (B2), I certainly hope to get some kind of a logical and satisfactory explanation from KEH and will post any good news that I might get.

Chris, I had not idea one could do that (pulling inventory ahead of time), sounds like v. smart thing to do, wish I’d thought of that.

Raid, it seems that I may be the one unlucky guy that KEH decided to ignore. I’d emailed them before on other orders and never, not once, received a reply. This is probably some kind of a sign for me…

 

[Bill58]

I sent them an email the other day about a LTM 28 Canon and got NO answer.

 

[anabasis]

I think part of the problem here is using the telephone. Look at it this way, you are expecting some salesperson to honestly know the difference between a 3rd and 4th generation lens of a make that few people actually use. They deal with all sorts of brands and that kind of esoteric knowledge is way above their level. This doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to figure out between black and silver (no exuse there) but the morale of the story here is to buy from them online.

I always use their online forms and when i click the cart, i know what generation i am getting and the product description is matched with the lens in their inventory. Basically they have their salesperson look for a product number rather then a particular lens from a choice. I honestly don't expect low level sales people to be able to get into much detail with me.

I have dealt with them for 3 years and have bought well over $10,000 worth of gear from them (including my Leica R outfit) and have had nothing but good results from them.

I am sorry that they fouled up this transaction so much, but I don't think I will have much better luck with any other online dealer.

JCA

 

[Bill58]

I sent them an email the other day about a LTM 28 Canon and got NO answer.

Got email answers, now salesperson has "disappeared".

😕

 

[ChrisPlatt]

That "Buy Now" button may read instant gratification,
but I would never buy anything expensive online
without talking to a human salesperson first,
at KEH or anywhere else, for that matter...

"Excelsior, you fathead!"
-Chris-

 

[x-ray]

I used to trade with KEH when they had a store you could go in and view what you were buying. In the beginning when they were on Spring St. in Atlanta you had to make an appointment and go to the old house where they were located and a sales person would bring the item you were interested in to you. Later they moved into a retail building on either 10th or 14th street and then closed it to the public. Now they're on the north east side in an old office building and there's no way you can make an appointment to view the gear. I haven't had any problems but I feel their prices are very high andnd rarely do business with them. I started buying from Jeff Wheeler who was my neighbor and later worked for a local supplier that I dlet with and then KEH. A few years ago Jeff opened his business and ran a good shop. I've made some very good purchased from him and we have been good friends untill my last transaction. I purchased what was supposed to be an Ilford MG B&W head for my Omega D2. It was suposed to be very clean and come with three mixing chambers. When it arrived two weeks and three phone calls after I ordered it it was a disaster and wasn't even the correct modelwhich would not even come close to fitting a 4x5 D2 and was not even a 4x5 head. The downside was both Jeff and his clerk argued with me that ididn't know what i was talking about. I took the head and measured the opening whare the mixing chamber fit and it was a max dimension of 3.5 inches. Certainly this would not fit my 4x5 and there was no method to mount it if I wanted to. Next after some words Jeff said he would take it back but I was never refunded my shipping either. Unfortunately this seems to be a trend in business. The bad side is I will no longer do business with Jeff and his business is falling quickly because of the decline in film equipment sales.

Before this incident Jeff told me that KEH is having problems due to declining film equipment sales. Declining sales along with a major invantory of a couple million dollars of hard to sell equipment one would think they would be a little more in tune with the all important customer.

 

[x-ray]

I think part of the problem here is using the telephone. Look at it this way, you are expecting some salesperson to honestly know the difference between a 3rd and 4th generation lens of a make that few people actually use. They deal with all sorts of brands and that kind of esoteric knowledge is way above their level.

JCA

I've asked the sales person specific questions too and was told they do not see the items that they are in the warehouse and have been evaluated and graded by someone else. I was told it would take up to three days to get the item pulled so specific questions could be answered.

I know when I've purchased used from Koh, Midwest or B&H they have gone to the case and pulled the item to give me specific info. I personally like doing business that way. I recently found a Fujinon view lens that I was looking for in a Midwest sale flier. The sales person was a specialist in view equipment and described the lens in detail. When I purchased it he told me to keep it and try it for a few weeks and if I wasn't satisfied they would do a complete refund. B&H and Koh have been the same way. In the old days when Jim Kuehl was in business he would ship to me on approval with an invoice included and no payment up front. I would check the gear and send a check. Now that's real trust and customer service. I asked Jim one time if he had ever been shafted and he said no.

 

[akptc]

... I am sorry that they fouled up this transaction so much, but I don't think I will have much better luck with any other online dealer.

JCA

JCA, I’ve already lowered my expectations 🙂
But what irks me most is not really that a mistake happaned (twice) but the company’s reaction to it. When I screw up professionally, I don’t stop fixing the mess until the client is happy. In this case, it’s been a month, no lens, no money back, as of today.

I used to trade with KEH when they had a store you could go in and view what you were buying...

I am starting to subscribe more to in-person equipment buying, even though it means some extra travel. At this point, I will still stick with B&H and other “majors” I’ve tried, as they have been 100% professional in every transaction with me. Too bad for KEH though – I have a long list of equipment I plan to try and it won’t be bough from them.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I've asked the sales person specific questions too and was told they do not see the items that they are in the warehouse and have been evaluated and graded by someone else. I was told it would take up to three days to get the item pulled so specific questions could be answered.

I don't understand their "business model" (if they have any or a concept of one), but this is a really, emm, brain-challenged way of running a used/second-hand gear photo business, where somebody grades an item, you hope you luck out (a la ePrey), but if it's not what you were hoping for, then you have to pay again for shipping, and you've lost at least $30 in the little dance.

I don't understand how you can have a "salesperson" selling you something they can't see and sell to you, only be a middleperson in your transaction.

Short-term cost-cutting is more often than not a long-term money-losing enterprise.