GenghisWayne
Left-brained
Assuming you purchase a used Leica RF rated EXC or better by the KEH guys, would you expect to have to send it off for a CLA?
I've not purchased anything from them, but I'm interested in getting a camera that's ready to go out of the box. Just wondering what I should expect.
Thanks in advance.
GW-
I've not purchased anything from them, but I'm interested in getting a camera that's ready to go out of the box. Just wondering what I should expect.
Thanks in advance.
GW-
Gumby
Veteran
To vague a question to answer. Best possible answer is, "It depends." Factors include:
1. How old.
2. How much used.
3. How well cared for.
4. How stored.
5. How now brown cow.
It is more dependent on the individual camera than the stated condition. Buying higher grades, though, should reduce the likelihood of having to have it serviced in the near future. You always have the option of buying it and if you don't think it is in the condition described, returning it. KEH is pretty good about their customer service.
1. How old.
2. How much used.
3. How well cared for.
4. How stored.
5. How now brown cow.
It is more dependent on the individual camera than the stated condition. Buying higher grades, though, should reduce the likelihood of having to have it serviced in the near future. You always have the option of buying it and if you don't think it is in the condition described, returning it. KEH is pretty good about their customer service.
Merkin
For the Weekend
Roger will be along any moment to disagree with me on this, but for me, if you are going to buy any Leica older than 10 or so years, it should either come with a receipt showing a recent CLA, or you should budget for one. KEH does tend to be very honest and generous with their ratings though, and you can always return it if the least thing seems off, so if I was going to trust any place on the internet to sell me a Leica that is in good shape and doesnt need a cla, it would be KEH. You can always call them up and ask them about the camera. Sometimes the sales people are able to put actual hands on the item and tell you about it, sometimes they aren't. Either way, I have always found them to be 100 percent honest about their equipment.
kshapero
South Florida Man
well, I disagree. KEH exc means you are good to go.
Gumby
Veteran
Are you Roger, or did you mean, I think KEH exc should mean you are good to go? I have never seen "good to go" in the description for any KEH condition.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
A KEH EXC rated camera means it is cosmetically very pretty but not perfectly new.
All KEH cameras, except those indicated as such, are guaranteed to work perfectly. That has nothing to do with it needing or not needing a CLA. It only means it works perfectly. It is your call if you feel a need to send a perfectly working camera out to have something done to it.
I have a personal friend who makes his living as a professional (Hasselblad & Leica) repair guy. He always says "if it ain't broke, don't give it me to fix"
Luddite Frank
Well-known
I have purchased several lenses from KEH over the last year or two... I believe they have all been graded "bargain" (BGN), and when I received them, I was quote pleased by how nice they were... KEH's "bargain" is most other vendors' "excellent" or even "mint- "....
That said, if you're contemplating purchasing a mechanical camera ( clock-work shutter ), and there's no evidence of it having been serviced in the last ten years or so, it's probably getting dry and sticky, and you should plan on a CLA.
Even if it runs accurately at all speeds, if the works are running dry, they will wear quickly resulting in higher repair costs than a CLA would have run.
Any particular brand / model camera you are considering ?
That said, if you're contemplating purchasing a mechanical camera ( clock-work shutter ), and there's no evidence of it having been serviced in the last ten years or so, it's probably getting dry and sticky, and you should plan on a CLA.
Even if it runs accurately at all speeds, if the works are running dry, they will wear quickly resulting in higher repair costs than a CLA would have run.
Any particular brand / model camera you are considering ?
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Half the stuff I have bought from KEH arrived not in perfect working order, and I NEVER bought BGN, only EX and EX+. They grade only on condition, not function, but will exchange or refund if it doesnt work right. Be aware that it typically, in my experience, takes several weeks for them to complete an exchange or refund!
thrice
Established
I've found KEH slightly uncommunicative (I have only purchased from them online) and rather slow to ship with no tracking information. This makes me hesitant to order from them. Many people do comment on their ratings being conservative but I've never ordered anything substantial from them.
CorreCaminos
CorreCaminos
I've bought a Leica M4 and a Hasselblad 501 from KEH in EXC+ and they both worked perfectly.
I've bought several lenses from them and had to return a few for different reasons. While it took about two weeks to process the returns or refunds, they always took care of the problem.
They've always shipped the stuff right away and extremely well packed. They return phone calls and always let me know the status of my orders. They are my favorite online retailer and I have no reservations whatsoever ordering anything from them.
I've bought several lenses from them and had to return a few for different reasons. While it took about two weeks to process the returns or refunds, they always took care of the problem.
They've always shipped the stuff right away and extremely well packed. They return phone calls and always let me know the status of my orders. They are my favorite online retailer and I have no reservations whatsoever ordering anything from them.
SeaninBrisbane
Member
Just bought a BGN grade Mamiya 6 from KEH - body was in good shape with minimal marking and it seems to be running like a new camera. They were also very efficient to deal with (posted to Australia with no hassles). Was given a tracking number the moment the order was ready to ship.
januaryman
"Flim? You want flim?"
What he said. Even the Canon P I bought as Bargain rated was just fine.
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
I think Bob and Chris are both right here. KEH grades on cosmetics, their guaranty backs up function. All things being equal a piece of equipment that has been babied is likely to need a CLA less than one that has signs of heavy use, but let's be realistic. I have gotten plenty of good, useful stuff from KEH over the years and their BGN grade often applies to equipment that works great. BUT, my conclusion is that they don't necessarily thoroughly check out every piece of gear they buy. My guess is that they find it less expensive to address the complaints than to carefully go over the volume of used equipment they take in. That said, I would deal with them in a heartbeat as they have always made things right on the rare occasions when something needed attention.
Common sense: it depends on what you buy. If you are getting a 50 year old Rollei or Leica M or a 60 or 70 year old LTM Leica, you'd better budget a CLA whether the stuff is mint or not. A 50 year old camera with no signs of use may indeed have sat unused in a collection for decades. These are tools that need to be used and (like cars) will not function well if ignored for long periods of time. Lube dries out, cloth material ages etc., internal glass surfaces acquire deposits, dust and so on.
What dream camera inspired this question? At the risk of starting a flame war, not all cameras were created equal. If you were buying a used Nikon F3 or a Canon F1 it is a little different than buying a used Spotmatic (as much of a soft spot as I have for Pentax).
Ben Marks
Common sense: it depends on what you buy. If you are getting a 50 year old Rollei or Leica M or a 60 or 70 year old LTM Leica, you'd better budget a CLA whether the stuff is mint or not. A 50 year old camera with no signs of use may indeed have sat unused in a collection for decades. These are tools that need to be used and (like cars) will not function well if ignored for long periods of time. Lube dries out, cloth material ages etc., internal glass surfaces acquire deposits, dust and so on.
What dream camera inspired this question? At the risk of starting a flame war, not all cameras were created equal. If you were buying a used Nikon F3 or a Canon F1 it is a little different than buying a used Spotmatic (as much of a soft spot as I have for Pentax).
Ben Marks
wgerrard
Veteran
KEH says "All used equipment is guaranteed to work, regardless of its cosmetic condition and is covered by KEH's 60 day warranty."
Note that guaranteeing things work is not equivalent to guaranteeing they've been thoroughly tested. I expect each item gets a cursory workability check when it's evaluated prior to purchase by KEH. I.e., don't buy broken hardware and you can say that everything works.
But, that doesn't mean it won't break 5 minutes after the customer takes it out of the box. All used hardware, from any source, carries that risk.
Note that guaranteeing things work is not equivalent to guaranteeing they've been thoroughly tested. I expect each item gets a cursory workability check when it's evaluated prior to purchase by KEH. I.e., don't buy broken hardware and you can say that everything works.
But, that doesn't mean it won't break 5 minutes after the customer takes it out of the box. All used hardware, from any source, carries that risk.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
In the 14 years that I've been buying from KEH, I can count on one hand the times when I've had to send something back (ironically, they all took place within the last two years).
Having said that, an EXC rating should mean that the camera is in great condition - both cosmetically and mechanically. I've even purchased 'Ugly' things from them that have turned out to be perfectly fine to use.
Having said that, an EXC rating should mean that the camera is in great condition - both cosmetically and mechanically. I've even purchased 'Ugly' things from them that have turned out to be perfectly fine to use.
pschauss
Well-known
I bought a Leica IIIa, rated EX or EX+, from them three and a half years ago. All speeds except 1/1000 worked perfectly. In pictures taken at 1/1000, one side of the frame looked a bit "ragged". From reading the archives in photonet at the time it seemed that it was not realistic to expect good results with the 1/1000 speeed on a IIIa so I assumed that whoever had worked on the camera had done the best he could with it.
The shutter curtains looked perfect and what I could see of the interior of the camera looked clean. The controls worked smoothly.
For the price that I paid for the camera I figured that I could afford a CLA if it really needed it, but so far I have not done so.
Of course, this is only one data point so YMMV.
The shutter curtains looked perfect and what I could see of the interior of the camera looked clean. The controls worked smoothly.
For the price that I paid for the camera I figured that I could afford a CLA if it really needed it, but so far I have not done so.
Of course, this is only one data point so YMMV.