gudlagoba
Established
I first started using the Kiev 4 in 2005 and it has been my main user camera ever since. I liked this system so much that I 'splurged' on a Bessa R2C as a backup body and my shooting these days is mostly divided between the Kiev 4 and Bessa.
My question is about how best to use the Kiev with turret finder and longer focal length lens. I find that having to focus through the camera viewfinder and then switch to frame/adjust for parallax with the turret finder is a pain. I have taken a number of well framed and well focused shots but I have to work really hard especially with large apertures. The main reason I use the Jupiter 9 is for it's fantastic quality and pleasing oof rendition. I usually find myself focusing in the 2m-3m range with large aperture, so accurate focus is critical.
Is there a trick that the pros use to make this process easier? There's no way I can visualize 85mm framelines when looking through that tunnel they call a viewfinder.
My question is about how best to use the Kiev with turret finder and longer focal length lens. I find that having to focus through the camera viewfinder and then switch to frame/adjust for parallax with the turret finder is a pain. I have taken a number of well framed and well focused shots but I have to work really hard especially with large apertures. The main reason I use the Jupiter 9 is for it's fantastic quality and pleasing oof rendition. I usually find myself focusing in the 2m-3m range with large aperture, so accurate focus is critical.
Is there a trick that the pros use to make this process easier? There's no way I can visualize 85mm framelines when looking through that tunnel they call a viewfinder.
Nickfed
Well-known
You have clearly identified a problem.
I think you will find that the trick most pros use to solve this problem is to invest in an SLR.
I think you will find that the trick most pros use to solve this problem is to invest in an SLR.
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rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
I'm not shooting a Kiev much anymore but what I do with my LTM Jupiter 9 and my two body kit--Bessa R and Zorki 3M--is to mainly use the Jupiter 9 on the Bessa so I can take advantage of the frame lines. Even then, I tend to frame loosely and adjust as needed in the print.
When I use the turret finder, if I'm mostly shooting close I will set the turret VF at the 3 meter mark and then leave it there. Then focus, frame using the turret finder with out getting worried about if I've focused at some other close distance than 3 meters and still try to frame so I can adjust later. I don't look at the distance mark on the finder for every shot, in other words.
Rob
When I use the turret finder, if I'm mostly shooting close I will set the turret VF at the 3 meter mark and then leave it there. Then focus, frame using the turret finder with out getting worried about if I've focused at some other close distance than 3 meters and still try to frame so I can adjust later. I don't look at the distance mark on the finder for every shot, in other words.
Rob
gudlagoba
Established
Point taken. 
Manual focus SLR, auto focus SLR, digital SLR, a slippery slope...
Manual focus SLR, auto focus SLR, digital SLR, a slippery slope...
gudlagoba
Established
rbiemer said:
Thanks Rob. Your approach with the turret finder makes perfect sense. I will try it that way.
Of course, apart from the short rangefinder base, the Bessa is much easier to frame and focus. With the J9 on the Bessa, I've had good results at f5.6 but it has been hit or miss at apertures larger than that.
- Raj
40oz
...
"Is there a trick that the pros use to make this process easier? There's no way I can visualize 85mm framelines when looking through that tunnel they call a viewfinder."
um, OK.
I was gonna say that if you use your turret finder, and observe that the frame for the 85mm lens is roughly three times the dimensions of the rf rectangle in the Kiev finder, you can easily figure out framing without using a turret finder. But I won't say that, because as you said, there's no way you are capable of such a thing
You might consider cleaning your viewfinder if it's such a problem. With my glasses off, I have no problems focusing my Kiev's even in really low light. With my glasses on, in lower light it can be a problem.
I also do have an 85mm finder, which I don't find to be a problem to use at all. I just focus and roughly frame, then move to the finder for more precise framing. And it's not "precise" in the normal sense of the word, because all finders are "sloppy" to the extent that they don't exactly descrbe what gets captured on film. Rather, they typically show what is assured to make it on the film. Objects slightly out of the frame may or may not, depending on focus distance.
um, OK.
I was gonna say that if you use your turret finder, and observe that the frame for the 85mm lens is roughly three times the dimensions of the rf rectangle in the Kiev finder, you can easily figure out framing without using a turret finder. But I won't say that, because as you said, there's no way you are capable of such a thing
You might consider cleaning your viewfinder if it's such a problem. With my glasses off, I have no problems focusing my Kiev's even in really low light. With my glasses on, in lower light it can be a problem.
I also do have an 85mm finder, which I don't find to be a problem to use at all. I just focus and roughly frame, then move to the finder for more precise framing. And it's not "precise" in the normal sense of the word, because all finders are "sloppy" to the extent that they don't exactly descrbe what gets captured on film. Rather, they typically show what is assured to make it on the film. Objects slightly out of the frame may or may not, depending on focus distance.
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rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
Pitxu,
I guess I'm used to the turret finder so it doesn't feel awkward to me. But I also find two main advantages to using it:
The first is that I only need carry one piece of gear and I have auxiliary finders for several lenses--5 in the case of the FSU finder that I have: 28, 35, 50, 85, and 135. Which saved me space in my bag and money in my pocket.
The second is that the VF size does not get smaller as I change from wide to tele lenses and I appreciate that especially with the 135 lens.
In fairness, I have to admit to wanting to try one of the Helios finders, though.
Rob
I guess I'm used to the turret finder so it doesn't feel awkward to me. But I also find two main advantages to using it:
The first is that I only need carry one piece of gear and I have auxiliary finders for several lenses--5 in the case of the FSU finder that I have: 28, 35, 50, 85, and 135. Which saved me space in my bag and money in my pocket.
The second is that the VF size does not get smaller as I change from wide to tele lenses and I appreciate that especially with the 135 lens.
In fairness, I have to admit to wanting to try one of the Helios finders, though.
Rob
gudlagoba
Established
40oz said:"Is there a trick that the pros use to make this process easier? There's no way I can visualize 85mm framelines when looking through that tunnel they call a viewfinder."
um, OK.
I was gonna say that if you use your turret finder, and observe that the frame for the 85mm lens is roughly three times the dimensions of the rf rectangle in the Kiev finder, you can easily figure out framing without using a turret finder. But I won't say that, because as you said, there's no way you are capable of such a thing
Wow!! I never ever noticed this. I've gotta try this out. I guess I can frame loosely and compensate for any parallax error.
My rf patch is big, yellow, and bright so no problems there... I was referring to lack of eye relief... but in this case using the center part of the finder should be easy.
Maybe I can be made to eat my own words ..
40oz
...
glad I could help
pinafore2
Established
If you are DIY-handy you might find the solution in this link, i am working on something similar myself.
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-26.html
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-26.html
Nickfed
Well-known
gudlagoba said:Point taken.
Manual focus SLR, auto focus SLR, digital SLR, a slippery slope...
NO NO No. Steel yourself. It's just a matter of horses for courses.
Your operative word was pro. The art of being a pro is in the ability to use the right tool for the job. Rangefinders have their place. So do SLRs, and the longer the lens, the more apparent that is.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
This is what I shoot with last week:
The external viewfinder is "zoomable" and it has parallax compensation dial. The whole thing handles like a heavy SLR until I trip the shutter and the "schnikk" sound made me realize that I'm using the Kiev.
This is also my first time to use the Jupiter-9, we'll see the results soon.
The external viewfinder is "zoomable" and it has parallax compensation dial. The whole thing handles like a heavy SLR
until I trip the shutter and the "schnikk" sound made me realize that I'm using the Kiev.This is also my first time to use the Jupiter-9, we'll see the results soon.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Indeed, the black Jupiter 9 is a good match also.
Speaking about J9, Fedka has one in chrome, a bit pricy though!
Speaking about J9, Fedka has one in chrome, a bit pricy though!
Tair-11A
Registered User
Pitxu said:
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Kneb is a fairly common Internet variant of Kiev (КИЕВ). If you can't read Cyrillic, you could mistake the letters for saying KNEB.
Philipp
Philipp
Tair-11A
Registered User
rxmd said:
I've asked our seller about J9 in Kiev mount. I think he has such lens, he will tell me about it tomorrow. But I'm living in UkrainePitxu said:
gudlagoba
Established
pinafore2 said:
thanks for another nugget of useful information...the weekend approaches and I know what I'll be doing Friday night...
Tair-11A
Registered User
OK, I'll do it.Pitxu said:
pinafore2
Established
considering shorter lens
considering shorter lens
I do have a J-12, but no real finder, so ihave tried this:
http://www.ragarecords.com/photo/diy_viewfinder.html
and it is absolutely working, but i did also look at this:
http://www.jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page358.htm
and is now in process of building a better viewfinder, with aluminum housing and currently considering how to build in some parallax compensation.
But this thread made me thinking:
The metered Kievs, the light meter is almost newer working anyway so why not strip all the metering stuff out of the housing. This would leave a big empty space inside, drill a hole in the back and install the viewfinder inside ?.
This would be, i think, a rather elegant solution and make the meter-lump on the metered Kiev's useful again, instead of just being a pain in the eye.
Have anyone of all the obvios DIY-Kiev owners/repairmen had this idea, maybe tried it out ?
considering shorter lens
I do have a J-12, but no real finder, so ihave tried this:
http://www.ragarecords.com/photo/diy_viewfinder.html
and it is absolutely working, but i did also look at this:
http://www.jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page358.htm
and is now in process of building a better viewfinder, with aluminum housing and currently considering how to build in some parallax compensation.
But this thread made me thinking:
The metered Kievs, the light meter is almost newer working anyway so why not strip all the metering stuff out of the housing. This would leave a big empty space inside, drill a hole in the back and install the viewfinder inside ?.
This would be, i think, a rather elegant solution and make the meter-lump on the metered Kiev's useful again, instead of just being a pain in the eye.
Have anyone of all the obvios DIY-Kiev owners/repairmen had this idea, maybe tried it out ?
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
pinafore2 said:
I'm always fascinated by these DIY viewfinders. If I don't already have one already attached when I get my Kiev, I'd probably make one of these.
That big meter atop Kiev 4M can house the CV light meter
or a second rangefinder...