Pfreddee
Well-known
Has anybody tried them? I see mostly FEDs and Zorkis talked about, but not so many Contax copies.
I understand that the usual caveats buying an FSU camera apply; I shop at fedka.com so I know I have a very good chance of getting a good copy.
What are their quirks, and handling features? How about their strong points?
Any heads-up warnings about operation, rangefinder, loading, etc.?
Thanks to all who reply.
With best regards.
Pfreddee(Stephen)
I understand that the usual caveats buying an FSU camera apply; I shop at fedka.com so I know I have a very good chance of getting a good copy.
What are their quirks, and handling features? How about their strong points?
Any heads-up warnings about operation, rangefinder, loading, etc.?
Thanks to all who reply.
With best regards.
Pfreddee(Stephen)
mooge
Well-known
strong points:
-looks super cool.
-loooong RF base (look at those windows!), so focusing is pretty precise.
-very contrasty RF patch, brighter than the actual VF in fact!
-good optics available (Zeiss lenses!)
-makes you look a bit more like Robert Capa
weak points:
-squinty VF (reason why I haven't used mine in forever...)
-rough shutter release. it's kinda stiff.
quirks:
-easy to block the RF window. but you'll get over it.
-helical built into the body. makes 50mm lenses tiny...
-focuses 50mms with a wheel on the body, near the RF window. yeah, one handed operation possible. it's a bit weird at first but you'll get over it.
-50mm lenses spin while focusing. so there are two aperture scales.
-vertical traveling brass shutter. a bit like a garage door. it's not louder than a Leica, just sounds different.
anyways, it's just a Contax with sketchy build quality, pretty much. the Head Bartender has a pretty good page...
http://www.cameraquest.com/zconrf2.htm
aaand..
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/zconrfKiev.htm
the Kiev/Contax II is a good camera. I just didn't get along with that viewfinder.
cheers.
-looks super cool.
-loooong RF base (look at those windows!), so focusing is pretty precise.
-very contrasty RF patch, brighter than the actual VF in fact!
-good optics available (Zeiss lenses!)
-makes you look a bit more like Robert Capa
weak points:
-squinty VF (reason why I haven't used mine in forever...)
-rough shutter release. it's kinda stiff.
quirks:
-easy to block the RF window. but you'll get over it.
-helical built into the body. makes 50mm lenses tiny...
-focuses 50mms with a wheel on the body, near the RF window. yeah, one handed operation possible. it's a bit weird at first but you'll get over it.
-50mm lenses spin while focusing. so there are two aperture scales.
-vertical traveling brass shutter. a bit like a garage door. it's not louder than a Leica, just sounds different.
anyways, it's just a Contax with sketchy build quality, pretty much. the Head Bartender has a pretty good page...
http://www.cameraquest.com/zconrf2.htm
aaand..
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/zconrfKiev.htm
the Kiev/Contax II is a good camera. I just didn't get along with that viewfinder.
cheers.
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fuji645
Established
Recently purchased a Kiev with the Jupiter 8 (50mm Sonnar clone) and have since purchased a Jupiter 12 (Biogon replica). Build quality on mine is pretty good, nothing broke and everything works. Good shooter with contrasty but somewhat dim viewfinder. Pretty easy to focus. Vertical travel metal shutter is a bit odd but if you get a good one it works well. Changing shutter speeds a bit of a trial since it requires a lot of force to lift up and twist. Fast speeds are generally OK, slow ones are usually off. Bought mine for about $50 from Caxa 22 in Latvia on E bay--no drama, no surprises. Clean crisp images and fun to use.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Cagliostro73
Established
Hi!
I have a Kiev 2a (1956) and i think it's fantastic.
If i remember correctly, the real contax copies are those producted until 1955-1956 (u can recognise them from the serial number: first 2 digits = year of production). From that period on, the parts were finished and they started to build them with much more tolerances...
Remember: never change the time speed without arming the shutter. A gold rule good for any russian camera.
Enjoy!
I have a Kiev 2a (1956) and i think it's fantastic.
If i remember correctly, the real contax copies are those producted until 1955-1956 (u can recognise them from the serial number: first 2 digits = year of production). From that period on, the parts were finished and they started to build them with much more tolerances...
Remember: never change the time speed without arming the shutter. A gold rule good for any russian camera.
Enjoy!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
The focusing mounts have often stiffened up with age and can be very hard to focus with the little wheel. Remedies: clean and lubricate, or focus directly by twisting the lens, in which case the little wheel whizzes round and tries to saw off your finger.
There's far less lens choice than with Leica mount, of course, and although the lenses were very good indeed by 1930s standards I prefer more modern lenses for most purposes.
Cheers,
R.
There's far less lens choice than with Leica mount, of course, and although the lenses were very good indeed by 1930s standards I prefer more modern lenses for most purposes.
Cheers,
R.
ray*j*gun
Veteran
You will probably hear different reviews but in my experience (I've had 4 Kiev's) they have all been terrible (various shutter issues and light leaks).....and understand they were all serviced and one was from a noted FSU vendor. I love the old Contax types but I have decided to stay with Contax and avoid the FSU's. My IIa and IIIa's both run beautifully.
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batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
They are not "copies" in the sense that early FEDs and Zorkis are unauthorized copies of the Leica (or, much later, Kiev themselves ripping off the Minox 35). Rather, the entire operation was moved from Jena, Germany, to Kiev, Ukraine, as a result of WWII. Consequently, it's more accurate to speak of a continuation.
Early Kievs are identical to the last Contaxes from Jena. They were actually assembled from existing parts stock. (Obviously, the longer production continued under the Soviet system, the more it was affected by realities such as raw materials, quota system, aging equipment ...)
This is also why Kievs are served by the Contax forum here on RFF.
Early Kievs are identical to the last Contaxes from Jena. They were actually assembled from existing parts stock. (Obviously, the longer production continued under the Soviet system, the more it was affected by realities such as raw materials, quota system, aging equipment ...)
This is also why Kievs are served by the Contax forum here on RFF.
Wahoo
Washing on Siegfried Line
My Kiev's aren't Contax copies but just very plain vanilla 1970's/80's Kiev 4 and 4 an's. of the 7 just 1 is kaputt and the others work just fine.
Here are a couple of recent photos taken with a 4an and 50mm J8.
Here are a couple of recent photos taken with a 4an and 50mm J8.
Peter_Jones
Well-known
If you can, try one out before buying - examples with rough operation can be made slightly smoother, but smooth ones are a joy to use. The older they are, it seems the better the quality of construction.
Take off the lens and check the shutter doesn't sit at an odd angle - the shutter ribbon are a weak point.
One major benefit is the Jupiter9 (85/2) in this mount doesn't seem to have the same focussing issues as in the 39 mount.
Take off the lens and check the shutter doesn't sit at an odd angle - the shutter ribbon are a weak point.
One major benefit is the Jupiter9 (85/2) in this mount doesn't seem to have the same focussing issues as in the 39 mount.
newspaperguy
Well-known
I have two, a 1956 IIa and an early 1959 4A and they both work fine,
and they have for years. The earlier one is swish-silent & pure joy to use.
The newer one, a little noisier.
and they have for years. The earlier one is swish-silent & pure joy to use.
The newer one, a little noisier.
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ray*j*gun
Veteran
Rick,
I wish I had your good fortune....I really wanted mine to work well but alas....
I wish I had your good fortune....I really wanted mine to work well but alas....
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Since you're shopping at Fedka, I would also consider the Contax III he's offering "as-is." Dead meter and brassed, otherwise fine, $159 for the body. He's been listing that one for a long time now so maybe you could get a deal.
IMO Contax RFs are undervalued at this time, making a Kiev somewhat hard to justify (unless one's budget really doesn't allow more).
IMO Contax RFs are undervalued at this time, making a Kiev somewhat hard to justify (unless one's budget really doesn't allow more).
dee
Well-known
Most old cameras need a service .
Most from ex USSR will need attention .
Check with Fedka if it has been CLA
Pre-1960 or so is ' best quality ' though later Kiev 4 / 4a may have had less useage .
Even Kiev 4 were fine quality at first - the techs were proud of their modifications to update the Kiev III .
Engraving , finish , and smoothness [ when CLA ] are better than later cameras .
If you are considering an early Kiev 2 / 3 Kiev 2a / 3a [ with flash sync ]
and are prepared to pay for CLA , then a broken Contax II / III may be more cost effective .
I love my Kiev II shuttered Contax II and even a modest 1979 Kiev 4 with working meter from Oleg on e-bay ... and no more squinty than a Leica IIIc !
Most from ex USSR will need attention .
Check with Fedka if it has been CLA
Pre-1960 or so is ' best quality ' though later Kiev 4 / 4a may have had less useage .
Even Kiev 4 were fine quality at first - the techs were proud of their modifications to update the Kiev III .
Engraving , finish , and smoothness [ when CLA ] are better than later cameras .
If you are considering an early Kiev 2 / 3 Kiev 2a / 3a [ with flash sync ]
and are prepared to pay for CLA , then a broken Contax II / III may be more cost effective .
I love my Kiev II shuttered Contax II and even a modest 1979 Kiev 4 with working meter from Oleg on e-bay ... and no more squinty than a Leica IIIc !
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
I bought a Kiev IIa a couple of years ago. The only thing I can find wrong with it is cleaning marks/scratches on the Jupiter 8. But it hasn't stopped me using it so far:
I've been using it as a poor-man's Contax II for WW2 re-enactment
Marking up the Sherman M4A4 for the victory parade through Pilzen in the Czech Republic earlier this year.
I've been using it as a poor-man's Contax II for WW2 re-enactment
Marking up the Sherman M4A4 for the victory parade through Pilzen in the Czech Republic earlier this year.
wolves3012
Veteran
I have a '75 Kiev 4 that was my father's, it still works (except the meter) and has never been serviced). I also have a '78 Kiev 4a. The '78 has had a minor CLA and is my preferred one of the two. Runs sweetly, fairly quiet.
Pros of the Kievs (compared to other FSUs):
Metal shutter so no worries over sun-burnt pinholed curtains. No fading/capping issues. Lens-register and focus issues are rare. Long-base finder give accurate focussing. Fairly unobtrusive shutter sound, especially on 1/50 and slower. Bayonet-mount is quicker and easier than screw.
Cons:
"Contax-grip" style doesn't suit all (I find it awkward but suffer it). Complicated camera so not so easy to service or repair (and a bit scary for the DIY-er). Some bodies don't accept certain lenses (not a common problem but it's known). Fewer lenses to choose from. Focussing can be slow since that wheel has to go round (even if you turn the lens). The finder is a bit squinty but no worse than many other models. The infinity lock is not liked by all but is handy for lens-changes. Frame-spacing issues are a common fault.
You won't really know if you like them until you try one.
Pros of the Kievs (compared to other FSUs):
Metal shutter so no worries over sun-burnt pinholed curtains. No fading/capping issues. Lens-register and focus issues are rare. Long-base finder give accurate focussing. Fairly unobtrusive shutter sound, especially on 1/50 and slower. Bayonet-mount is quicker and easier than screw.
Cons:
"Contax-grip" style doesn't suit all (I find it awkward but suffer it). Complicated camera so not so easy to service or repair (and a bit scary for the DIY-er). Some bodies don't accept certain lenses (not a common problem but it's known). Fewer lenses to choose from. Focussing can be slow since that wheel has to go round (even if you turn the lens). The finder is a bit squinty but no worse than many other models. The infinity lock is not liked by all but is handy for lens-changes. Frame-spacing issues are a common fault.
You won't really know if you like them until you try one.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
You can jam the infinity lock with a bit of toothpick in the lower lock (the one beside the mount that is unlocked by the external lens mount). Takes seconds to do and the same time to reverse.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
mooge
Well-known
not so easy to service? I wouldn't agree, the Kiev is actually pretty easy. everything's modular, so it (kind of ) comes apart in chunks (body casting, top cover, shutter, lens mount/helical...) as opposed to other cameras that come apart a bit at a time.
and adjusting the speeds only involves curtain tension. which, on the Kiev is one spring, not two.
cheers.
and adjusting the speeds only involves curtain tension. which, on the Kiev is one spring, not two.
cheers.
kuzano
Veteran
Mine....
Mine....
This Kiev has worked well, with the exception of an occasional tightening of the screw on the takeup roll.
Mine....
This Kiev has worked well, with the exception of an occasional tightening of the screw on the takeup roll.
Tegla
Member
Kiev was my first ever camera which was given to me by my grandfather when i was 10. That camera is 45 yrs old and still is a exc. workhorse. Since than i exclusively use RF camera and collected many bodies and lenses (Jupiters and Zeiss pre and post war), but i never found good Contax body for good price, so i can't tell any difference between Contax and Kiev. Kiev is far better than any FED, Zorki and Zenit (I have them at home collecting dust). And i always change speeds on Kiev before cocking the shutter and never had any problems with any speed for decades of normal use.
I have Zeiss and Jupiter copies lenses from 35 to 135. Biggest difference i see in 35/2.8. Zeiss Opton is made much, much better in terms of mechanics, where Jupiter's back glass is more open and easily can be scratched. Optical performance on Jupiters is nothing less then Zeiss. Helios 103 is an excellent lens!!!
Fed and Zorki were for Soviet workers, Kiev was for Soviet communist party members.
I have Zeiss and Jupiter copies lenses from 35 to 135. Biggest difference i see in 35/2.8. Zeiss Opton is made much, much better in terms of mechanics, where Jupiter's back glass is more open and easily can be scratched. Optical performance on Jupiters is nothing less then Zeiss. Helios 103 is an excellent lens!!!
Fed and Zorki were for Soviet workers, Kiev was for Soviet communist party members.
W
willmaes
Guest
I bought a '73 Kiev4 on E-bay. It was sent to me from Israel. I only had to replace the camera leather, but everything else on the camera is working fine, including the light meter. In the early 60ies I had a Zeiss Ikon Contax IIIc with a Sonnar 50/1.5, which is a fantastic lens. Pictures made with the Jupiter 8M 50/2 are surprisingly very close and barely distinguible from the pictures made with the Zeiss Sonnar. Also the shutter is going very smooth. I made pictures on Kodak Portra 160VC film with very pleasing results.