kiev users, tell me why!

[ruben]

Comrades,

I have no doubt Kiev is a superb camera, ...........

However one thing worries me: I keep reading about all of these Kievs that work fine but suddenly break ribbons, about light leaks and uneven spacing, about how difficult it is to CLA them well etc.

While Fed-Zorkis are far from immune from problems, the ones I have fall into 2 categories, the good ones, which work flawlessly from day one. And 2-3 ones that had problems when I got them and I have not bothered to use them. But the good ones, some of them pre CLA'd, were very reliable.

Hi Semushkin,
I maintain that going Kiev requires going somewhat into home disassembly and self CLA.
Once you achieve it, your Kiev will last for decades.

The problem with most of the eBay and other sources Kievs is that instead of comming to our hands with propper CLA, which will raise the price of the camera to some $250~$300, they come with over-tensioned shutters, to enable the use of them for some time.

But this overtension is also the source of breaking ribbons (not the only one, of course), winding knob stiffness, and much of the uneven frame spacing, in some sense.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Semushkin]

Hi Semushkin,
I maintain that going Kiev requires going somewhat into home disassembly and self CLA.
...

Comrade Ruben,

That's what I was afraid of...



One thing puzzles me though. FED and Zorkis often have overtentioned shutters but seem less prone to ribbon breakage.

Semushkin

 

[Santafecino]

Semushkin--
Not to disagree with Ruben, who has seen far more deeply into the Kiev than I, but I have two reliable Kievs (2 and 3a) that were serviced by Oleg Khalyavin and very nicely. The service was only $53 (each), plus shipping, on top of the cost of the camera and included new ribbons. I do not expect them to need service for another 10-15 years. Of course, this is a prediction only. And there is surely much effort that can usefully be put into a 50 year old camera. But I feel I am at a good starting point.
--Lindsay

 

[giovatony]

Here`s the one I`d jump on in a minute if I didn`t already have 2 perfect working Kievs already. I was told by a well known collector that he is a credible seller . It has a service certificate.
John

http://cgi.ebay.com/Contax-III-copy-KIEV-4-USSR-camera-SERVICED-EXC-COND_W0QQitemZ120220001737QQihZ002QQcategoryZ107914QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[physiognomy]

I don't know how my initial attraction to the Kiev started. I just liked them... It probably helped that I found some great working examples, but I have also enjoyed tinkering with those (few) that had problems. I love how my right hand instinctively falls into position without blocking the rangefinder & unlocks infinity when I pick them up. Sure, it took some time, but this almost unconscious tactile motion is what separates these cameras for me.

A shot of my user '54 II - I wish I had removed the meter to show it's true lines...

Peter

 

[Roberto]

Why Kiev?
Because when I shoot with it I like the results a lot more...

R.

 

[physiognomy]

Why Kiev? Because when I shoot with it I like the results a lot more...

Agreed... Paired with a good lens, they can definitely produce results I am more than happy with.

'63 Kiev 4 with J-12... Temperature was about -20degC & my Kiev had no troubles while I nearly got frost-bite just taking my hands out of my gloves to change shutter speeds.

Peter

 

[zhang xk]

Peter, That is very beautiful picture. What film did you use?

 

[physiognomy]

Peter, That is very beautiful picture. What film did you use?

Hi Zhang, Thanks for your compliment! To be honest, I am not 100% certain, but I think it was shot on generic Walgreens film (made by fuji). If I come across the neg's/prints in a timely fashion I will post details.

Regards,

Peter

 

[ruben]

Here`s the one I`d jump on in a minute if I didn`t already have 2 perfect working Kievs already. I was told by a well known collector that he is a credible seller . It has a service certificate.
John

http://cgi.ebay.com/Contax-III-copy-KIEV-4-USSR-camera-SERVICED-EXC-COND_W0QQitemZ120220001737QQihZ002QQcategoryZ107914QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This seems to be a great opportunity.

a) New seller with 100% feedback

b) Great production year

c) The camera looks very good indeed

d) Low price


Cheers,
Ruben

 

[moretto]

I must say that I have used Kiev 4 for a few months, and the camera dissagrees with me completely. Somehow I just can't find the right position for my fingers to keep clear of the coupled rf glass...the focusing wheel in cold weather...useless..keeps blocking the lense in infinite focus...
It ended up putting it on auction site here in Croatia for 1kn, which would be the starting price of about 0,20 US$..20 cents that is... After three weeks, NO BIDS.:bang:
So, seeing I'm stuck with it, today I dropped another roll of color film inside and went for a walk in the rain..no, no progress...I still don't like it.
I would say, my favourite FSU is Zorki 4....could be Fed 4 if it wasn't so ugly

 

[Roberto]

I must say that I have used Kiev 4 for a few months, and the camera dissagrees with me completely. Somehow I just can't find the right position for my fingers to keep clear of the coupled rf glass...the focusing wheel in cold weather...useless..keeps blocking the lense in infinite focus...
It ended up putting it on auction site here in Croatia for 1kn, which would be the starting price of about 0,20 US$..20 cents that is... After three weeks, NO BIDS.:bang:
So, seeing I'm stuck with it, today I dropped another roll of color film inside and went for a walk in the rain..no, no progress...I still don't like it.
I would say, my favourite FSU is Zorki 4....could be Fed 4 if it wasn't so ugly

Put it in Classifieds, not auction sites, I'm sure you'll find a new home for the baby..

 

[moretto]

Hm..allready got a request from a colleque after this post....maybe you are right...I would be more interested in a trade than money though.. anyway, thanks for the tip...

 

[Spyderman]

I love my Kievs. But I hate that the focus goes the oposite way to infinity :bang:

Nevertheless I'm trying to get used to it. Meanwhile I managed to take some nice pictures with my Kievs (LINK).

Back to the original question: Why?

Because IMHO Kievs are more a system cameras than Zorki/FEDs. They just feel designed and made with more attention to detail. OTOH Zorkis and FEDs have some features, but lack others, and each model only has a subset of the features (slow speeds, strap lugs, reasonably bright VF, reasonalby large VF etc.).

In the end I like using Kievs, but also my pair of FED-2's and my pair of Zorki-1's. Each have their own pros...

 

[spiderfrank]

About the focusing wheel direction, it's a bit "strange",yes... What I do is to think like I have to move the "real" image toward the "double" one, I never use the lens barrel with my Kiev II (I have only J-8 and H-103), so it's works for me...

 

[shadowfox]

What Ondrej says, plus a shot of my Kiev "system":

 

[ruben]

Hi Will,

Would you mind to uncover that misterious Turret finder ?

Cheers,
Ruben

Great photo btw

 

[shadowfox]

I think it's the WALZ 28-135 Varifocal zoom finder (same optical design as the Nikon 35-135 Varifocal finder).

It's pictured on the Kiev Survival Site homepage. Anybody having read this website has seen this finder at least once here (scroll down the page).

It may also be the ACCURA Varifocal finder because we can't see it very well on Will's picture, but I think it's the WALZ one. Anyway it's neither the Nikon Varifocal nor its TEWE clone, which both have a very different foot than the foot of the finder pictured on Will's Kiev 4a.

Some other third party brands made similar "varifocal" auxiliary finders (Alpex, Steinheil), too.

Very interesting optical design BTW, because it improves much over the simple and deceptive Leitz VIOOH masks finder. It's a design inspired from the original Zeiss Ikon prewar 28-135 turret finder, but with all the different focal lengths gathered in the same optical barrel for nicer aesthetics. For sure the best 28-135 or 35-135 auxiliary finders we might use on a rangefinder camera.

Here is a close-up photo of a friend of mine's Walz 28-135 Varifocal finder :

Impressive knowledge on the various finders, thanks for sharing.

Ruben, mine I think is an Alpex (don't have the camera with me). It is indeed a varifocal-type, and the extra cool thing is that it also has parallax compensation dial.

It works very simply (and elegantly IMHO) when I rotate the almost-oval-shaped dial that pushes the back of the finder upwards causing the finder to tilt downwards.

Sorry, I don't have a shot of the finder by itself, but you guys can see it a bit better in this shot:

 

[ruben]

Comrades,

..............
However one thing worries me: I keep reading about all of these Kievs that work fine but suddenly break ribbons, about light leaks and uneven spacing, about how difficult it is to CLA them well etc.

.............It seems to my (subjective, FED-Zorki biased) eyes, that Kievs are more prone to sudden failures (ribons breaking for example) and that even recently CLA'd ones can fail, more so than FED-Zorki. Would you say that is true in general?

1) Kiev ribbons:
Once in a decade or two they will breake, so is said, and I think the rythm is very much related to two factors: camera usage per CLA. The more you use your camera without CLA the more you will near the moment of broken ribbons. BUT

You can CLA your camera and/or inspect your ribbons from time to time. Ribbons that are to break look like ribbons that are to break

And when ribbons break, if they break during your life time, kindly don't get a heart attack, after all is like a film messing in any camera, obliging you to stop untill you get home and pick your second Kiev, if you are a single camera at a time user

2) Light leaks:
The sources are well known and easy to deal with.

3) space framing issues:
They exist in many FSU cameras. But as intelligent beings, we differentiate between a camera in which all frames overlap one the other and no picture is seen, and a situation in which the space between frames is between 5mm and 0,5mm by the end. In this last case the camera is very much usable

And in both cases, the spacing is fixable.


Nevertheless, in what refers to which brand of camera to merry with, you should follow your instincts, first of all. Not mine.


Cheers,
Ruben

 

[spiderfrank]

Gentlemen, everything one day or another will break... If it must happen, it will do, and only then I'll start to worry, nothing is for ever, and you can change the broken ribbons and restart to play. No problem! Don't forget you are using cameras that are 20, 30, 40 or more years old... And about my question, my self-response now is "I like my Kiev for the "bzzzing" low speeds, the 3d effect of the j8, and the feeling of the focusing action", and... For all you guys! You are my warranty that when I'll have some problem (ribbons?), I'll be able to solve them with your help, and to learn something working on my camera.

Ciao a tutti
Franco