leica M2 fan
Veteran
Can anyone provide info on Kievs, which models are best for everyday shooting. What models to avoid. Need model that will accept Zeiss post-war glass. TIA. Any comments
will be appreciated. How about lenses, Jup-8 vs Helios 103?
will be appreciated. How about lenses, Jup-8 vs Helios 103?
tkluck
Well-known
In my humble opinion, the Kiev 4am (the unmetered version) is the best choice for everyday use. Has a fixed take up spool, hot shoe, and a rewind crank.
The aging selenium meters in the metered versions are of dubious value, although the little trap door in front is cute, and they might elevate a small flash enough to help with redeye. Some folks lucky enough to get a working meter find them useful in daylight.
The case is made to fit ether version and with no meter, it leaves room enough for a small finder or clip on meter.
Zeiss lenses will work (and vis versa...). So will Nikon wide angle lenses, sort of: http://www.cameraquest.com/NRF-Contax.htm
In short, the 4am is the best user. Earlier models will require increasingly more FSU enthusiasm...
a couple of useful links:
http://www.keithberry.telinco.co.uk/Kiev-4.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/index.html
http://www.commiecameras.com/sov/35mmrangefindercameras/cameras/kiev/index.htm
http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/index-frameset.html?Kiev4a.html~mainFrame
The aging selenium meters in the metered versions are of dubious value, although the little trap door in front is cute, and they might elevate a small flash enough to help with redeye. Some folks lucky enough to get a working meter find them useful in daylight.
The case is made to fit ether version and with no meter, it leaves room enough for a small finder or clip on meter.
Zeiss lenses will work (and vis versa...). So will Nikon wide angle lenses, sort of: http://www.cameraquest.com/NRF-Contax.htm
In short, the 4am is the best user. Earlier models will require increasingly more FSU enthusiasm...
a couple of useful links:
http://www.keithberry.telinco.co.uk/Kiev-4.htm
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/index.html
http://www.commiecameras.com/sov/35mmrangefindercameras/cameras/kiev/index.htm
http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/index-frameset.html?Kiev4a.html~mainFrame
Last edited:
peterc
Heretic
I have three Kievs _ a 4, a 4a and a 4am.
All are good solid cameras and are (generally) a joy to use.
However, there are a couple of problems that plague Kievs.
The first is light leaks. You will likely have to learn to disassemble the camera to replace light seals.
Frame spacing. My 4 and 4am are both somewhat random in their spacing of frames.
Peter
All are good solid cameras and are (generally) a joy to use.
However, there are a couple of problems that plague Kievs.
The first is light leaks. You will likely have to learn to disassemble the camera to replace light seals.
Frame spacing. My 4 and 4am are both somewhat random in their spacing of frames.
Peter
Duncan Ross
Say it with flashbulbs
peterc said:
Hi Peter
I've had numerous Kievs now but none of them have suffered from light leaks. Is there a 'usual' place where they appear?
Many thanks!
Duncan
leica M2 fan
Veteran
Thanks Guys
Thanks Guys
Thanks for all your input. This will help me make up my mind. I really like the look of the unmetered Kiev.
Thanks Guys
Thanks for all your input. This will help me make up my mind. I really like the look of the unmetered Kiev.
arothaus
Member
Hi,
I have several Kievs from the early 50ies to the 80ies. Although I had light leak problems with my 4am (at the viewfinder), I would vote for the 4am, too. If you do not need the hot shoe and the rewind crank, you'll also be happy with a 4a - but you won't get a 4a with the Helios-103, which I think is better than the Jupiter-8(m).
My Kiev-2 feels better (chrome, leather) than the later models, but a 2 is also more expensive.
Besides from questions of quality control, you need perhaps a little bit luck to get a good working camera. Sometimes 60 years old cameras work better than 25 years old do.
And do not buy a camera that looks like new - maybe this one was already junk when it left the factory and was banned from the first day on. Almost every camera that was used shows some signs of use.
Regards,
Andreas
I have several Kievs from the early 50ies to the 80ies. Although I had light leak problems with my 4am (at the viewfinder), I would vote for the 4am, too. If you do not need the hot shoe and the rewind crank, you'll also be happy with a 4a - but you won't get a 4a with the Helios-103, which I think is better than the Jupiter-8(m).
My Kiev-2 feels better (chrome, leather) than the later models, but a 2 is also more expensive.
Besides from questions of quality control, you need perhaps a little bit luck to get a good working camera. Sometimes 60 years old cameras work better than 25 years old do.
And do not buy a camera that looks like new - maybe this one was already junk when it left the factory and was banned from the first day on. Almost every camera that was used shows some signs of use.
Regards,
Andreas
peterc
Heretic
The light baffle behind the rangefinder window often stops working. This allows light to seep through the sprocket on the takeup side of the camera.Duncan Ross said:
My 4a and 4am both had this problem. I used the 4am as my test camera for perfecting the quashing of light leaks. I now have to work on the 4a.
Apart from the non-working meter, my Kiev 4 has been fine.
Peter
arothaus
Member
Hello,
Russ Pinchbeck shows at his site how to fix light leaks:
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/fixing light leaks.html
His site is really great!
Regards,
Andreas
Russ Pinchbeck shows at his site how to fix light leaks:
http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/fixing light leaks.html
His site is really great!
Regards,
Andreas
V
varjag
Guest
Having used both 4A and 4AM I would actually suggest 4A, preferrably from 1960s. 4AM may have rewind crank, but that minor convenience doesn't worth the compromise in build quality and 'feel' of the camera. As of the fixed takeup spool, 4A has not one but allows you to use a takup cassete in place of the spool: if you bulk-load your film you can just shoot film from one cassette to another, skipping the rewind part altogether.
R
ruben
Guest
In my also humble opinion, after buying 7 bodies+lenses and 4 non-standard lenses (and this doesn't amount to a big deal of experience at Kiev lands), Kievs are a kind of a project.
If you will start things right, and buy a Kiev from either Fedka (USA) or the Soviet Camera Store (Ukraine), most of the chances you will avoid the "project side" of it, and get away with a very good camera and very good lenses (for lenses undermark the name Fedka).
However if you, like most of us at the first time, are tempted by other sellers lower prices, then....here we are to help.
Fortunately, Kiev owners' status changed dramatically with the creation of the Kiev Survival Site (http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/fixing light leaks.html), meticulously surgering most of the intricate parts of the project. At the begining it may appear as complex, bit by bit you will be re-reading and grasping.
Now, you have to take a clear cut basic decision about wether are you going to own a single body with one or two lenses, or a system. Obviously too you cannot take such a decision before buying your first camera. Then, be lazy, save money, and start Fedka.
Within the right sellers, all Kiev models have their pros and cons, and I do not buy an abovementioned observation about non working sellenium meters. They work or not, by the same chance as with any other camera from the non FSU countries (yet the issue must be clarified with the seller before purchase.) Therefore, again, it is not the model but the seller.
A last work of caution. Kievs as they arrive to your hands, are not specially suitable to being drop into your back pack and live there your daily bumps. They will last this daily exercise something between two and six months, and afterwards you may have to re-adjust the rangefinder metering. But at the KSS you will have a "glueing" proceeding for fixing the rangefindering metering to last, which you are not obliged to follow, unless for the abovementioned situation.
The nice side of the "project" is that you will gain great control of your camera adjustments and softness, and no one, or almost no one, will do it for you as good as you.
Kindly note, I have not spoken here about the great advantages of the Kievs and their system, but limited myself to stress the best chushioned fall for the starter, to this highly desired land.
Cheers,
Ruben
As for lenses outside Fedka, there are not rules at all. You may get astonishing Sonnar-like performers, regardless of production year or chrome vs black, or junk or in-between. To know what have you got, you will have to test the lens at widest aperture and minimum distance.
If you will start things right, and buy a Kiev from either Fedka (USA) or the Soviet Camera Store (Ukraine), most of the chances you will avoid the "project side" of it, and get away with a very good camera and very good lenses (for lenses undermark the name Fedka).
However if you, like most of us at the first time, are tempted by other sellers lower prices, then....here we are to help.
Fortunately, Kiev owners' status changed dramatically with the creation of the Kiev Survival Site (http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/fixing light leaks.html), meticulously surgering most of the intricate parts of the project. At the begining it may appear as complex, bit by bit you will be re-reading and grasping.
Now, you have to take a clear cut basic decision about wether are you going to own a single body with one or two lenses, or a system. Obviously too you cannot take such a decision before buying your first camera. Then, be lazy, save money, and start Fedka.
Within the right sellers, all Kiev models have their pros and cons, and I do not buy an abovementioned observation about non working sellenium meters. They work or not, by the same chance as with any other camera from the non FSU countries (yet the issue must be clarified with the seller before purchase.) Therefore, again, it is not the model but the seller.
A last work of caution. Kievs as they arrive to your hands, are not specially suitable to being drop into your back pack and live there your daily bumps. They will last this daily exercise something between two and six months, and afterwards you may have to re-adjust the rangefinder metering. But at the KSS you will have a "glueing" proceeding for fixing the rangefindering metering to last, which you are not obliged to follow, unless for the abovementioned situation.
The nice side of the "project" is that you will gain great control of your camera adjustments and softness, and no one, or almost no one, will do it for you as good as you.
Kindly note, I have not spoken here about the great advantages of the Kievs and their system, but limited myself to stress the best chushioned fall for the starter, to this highly desired land.
Cheers,
Ruben
As for lenses outside Fedka, there are not rules at all. You may get astonishing Sonnar-like performers, regardless of production year or chrome vs black, or junk or in-between. To know what have you got, you will have to test the lens at widest aperture and minimum distance.
Last edited by a moderator:
leica M2 fan
Veteran
Ruben
Ruben
Thank you for your honest and earnest reply. I can see that you have thought long and hard about this situation . I feel your admiration of the Kiev camera in your words. Thank you so much for your attention and taking the time to write.
Tony
Ruben
Thank you for your honest and earnest reply. I can see that you have thought long and hard about this situation . I feel your admiration of the Kiev camera in your words. Thank you so much for your attention and taking the time to write.
Tony