Kindermann Disaster

[sircarl]

After using Paterson plastic reels and tanks for a couple of years to develop 120 film, I decided to get a Kinderman stainless reel and tank, because the hassles of loading the Paterson reels were getting to me. Today I developed my first two rolls (Delta 400) with the Kindermann -- disaster!

The first roll had a irregular gray blotch all down the middle, lengthwise. I thought it might be due to incomplete washing, leaving some anti-halation dye on the film, but further washing didn’t help. The second roll was worse, with uneven development at the edges and the bottom half much darker than the top, the entire length. (Will try to attach scans.) Taking no chances, I did a 3rd roll on my old Paterson reel and tank -- came out perfect.


Anyone have any idea what might have happened? I used the same chemicals and agitation routine with the Kindermann as I normally do with the Paterson. (Developer was Prescysol EF, which is pretty flexible.) The Kindermann tank seems to allow much less sloshing around, being smaller. Could that have something to do with it? If I can’t figure it out, I’ll go back to the Patersons for good -- it’s too risky otherwise. Grateful for any advice...

 

[xayraa33]

it looks like the film was not the reel properly.
it was not totally isolated on the spiral of the reel on one side at the film's edge.
S.S. reels have to be loaded with more care than the Paterson type reel.

 

[Ronald M]

Weak fix and insufficient agitation caused the streak down the middle. Refix in a tray and rewash and it will be fine.

The blotches on the second roll are insufficient agitation and/or not enough developer inthe tank. This is a total loss.

Best practice with stainless is to prefill the tank with developer and drop the reel into the developer in the dark. Rest of process with cap on is fine. This is not to say you can not pour developer in thru the cap, but you do risk marking the edge where it flows down. The Paterson fills evenly bottom up so the problem does not exist.

Paterson has a lot of head room for the developer to go at the top so two inversions is sufficient. With stainless, you must use no more developer than required to cover the reel to preserve as much space at the top as possible. 5 inversions or two with rotation during inversion are required.

If time is required to place the cap on the tank, lower the reel, remove and relower two times. This is initial agitation. Then cap and wait for the next cycle.

 

[Bryce]

Don't give up on the Kindermann yet. They're especially nice tanks.
I think xaraa33 has it- you've mis-loaded the reels. I'd suggest you practice in the light with a donor roll until you're sure it's going right.
For what it's worth, I load my two reel (120) tank in the dark, then cap it and pour chemicals in and out. I've had no problems with that routine. I'm also not particularly careful to leave a large or particularly consistent airspace.

 

[Jamie123]

I agree with Patrick. Jobo rolls are very easy to load with 120 film. I haven't tried anything else to compare it to but I can't imagine anything else being easier to use. I was able to load the Jobo reel very quickly and easily right from the first time I tried it and I didn't even practice in daylight first. Even double loading is no problem.

 

[sircarl]

Thanks for all your feedback. But I'm not encouraged. It seems from what you say that I have to load a Kindermann reel "more carefully" (whatever that means in the dark); prefill the tank (or maybe not); be careful to leave "enough" airspace; and change my agitation routine for my chosen developer (somehow). You know what? Frankly, it's just not worth trying to master all this -- and ruin even more rolls of film in the process -- in order to get the admittedly easier loading of the Kindermanns. I'm sure they work fine for those of you who use them regularly. But I'm going to sell mine on eBay and get a Jobo tank and reels instead, as Patrick and Jamie recommend. Will let you know how it works out.

 

[Max Power]

FWIW,
When I went from Paterson to Kindermann because I was fed-up with mangling 120 on Paterson reels, I maintained precisely the same times and agitations as with the Patersons, and no change.

I found that I used less chemistry, however.

Perhaps get a cheap roll of 120, and just zip off the roll and soup it. This time, make sure that the negs are properly anchored to the clip, and maybe even confirm the quantity of chemistry needed.

Kent

 

[ChrisPlatt]

FWIW I avoid 120 films with a too-thin base, and never shoot 220.

Even with absolutely DRY reels (a must!) and educated hands
these tend to buckle easily when loading on Paterson reels.

I doubt it's any easier with metal reels, esp. if a loader is used...

"Excelsior, you fathead!"
-Chris-

 

[Trius]

I used to process a fair amount of 120 on SS reels (can't remember the brand, but they weren't Hewes; maybe Nikor or Kinderman), and never really had a problem. I even processed the occasional roll of 220; don't remember any disasters, but I could be living in denial once again. 🙄

 

[sircarl]

Just wanted to loop back with everyone who left comments on this thread, which I started. I finally did what I said on 11/3 and bought a Jobo tank and reels. Today I developed my first three rolls of 120 Delta. Worked like a charm. The Jobo even lets you load two rolls at the same time, saving time and money. Plus I didn't have to change my chemicals or agitation routine at all. I'm a convert! Oh, and I was able to sell my Kindermann stuff on eBay for more than I bought them for. Sometimes things just work out...

 

[Trius]

I agree with Jenni ... "life is too short". SS works for me, not for others.

Some like Glenfiddich, I'm a Lagavulin man myself. 😀

 

[w3rk5]

I'm glad everything worked out for you in the end Carl. I for one prefer my stainless steel setup more. 🙂

 

[Dougg]

I prefer stainless, and have used Kindermann stuff for decades. But 120/220 is more difficult to load, so that's maybe a bad choice for a first experience with steel reels. Having used 35mm reels for a while is a good preparation for handling the larger film.

I can sure sympathize with Carl on the lost images; that's hard to take.

 

[rvaubel]

I prefer stainless, and have used Kindermann stuff for decades. But 120/220 is more difficult to load, so that's maybe a bad choice for a first experience with steel reels. Having used 35mm reels for a while is a good preparation for handling the larger film.

I can sure sympathize with Carl on the lost images; that's hard to take.

I hadn't loaded a SS reel in 30years. Last year I started developing film again. Got in the dark and it was just like......won't go there 😱