Kodak Alaris CEO asking for input

[Ansel]

Forget about scanning, they need to support and promote analogue, not digital. That means printing in a darkroom.

 

[RedLion]

My Suggestion.

My Suggestion.

Here's my suggestion:

Kodak Alaris provide a develop & scan solution which includes:

1. mail-in pre-paid envelopes for people to send in their film
2. a membership website where the scans are stored for further use. With a memberships at different levels, you can pay for more storage, for storage of the negatives, or to optionally have the negatives mailed back to you, etc...
3. Partnership with app developers so that all your scanned photos on the Kodak website are available to be transferred to you iPhone photo library or to be directly imported by a host of mobile apps like Snapseed or Adobe mobile, etc...

So the scenario would be:

1. take photos

2. Drop off my film in pre-paid envelope into any mailbox.

3. X days later, I get an email from Kodak (or I get a push notification from my Kodak app on my iPhone), that my photos are UP. As an optional service, I can have Kodak either hold or periodically ship me back my negatives on a schedule for a fee or as a part of my membership level.

4. I can then download the high-rez scans to my computer for further post-processing, OR I can use any number of mobile apps to get the scan (at an appropriate level of resolution) to post-process, share via tweet or facebook, or to send off to my local Costco, CVS, Walgreens, etc.. for immediate pick up of prints.

Kodak should take a loss initially to keep the costs LOW per roll of 35mm or 120 film in order to increase volume to where the low price CAN be sustainable. Perhaps even have membership levels where the higher the membership the lower the per-roll cost. Ex: You can start off with a low membership level and pay $12 per roll, or have a Pro membership level where you pay only $6 per roll for develop, scan and digital archive.

Customer Convenience:

• Pre-Paid envelopes
• Quick turn-around time and reasonable cost.
• Membership levels allow customers to choose options applicable to their needs.
• Website storage and App integration give speed and flexibility.

Kodak Business Advantage:

• Memberships provide a continuous income stream and the storage plus interoperability with other Apps enhances customer loyalty.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

So, Kodak-Alaris could go with a "cloud" now that it's so popular. One issue that folks have who scan at home is storage. Yes, I like having local storage but I can fill up a terabyte relatively quickly. In this next round of developing and scanning only black and white film, I'm going to be running about 100 rolls, scanning at 4000dpi x 4 pass which makes a TIFF file greater than 30MB. Granted, that's only 11GB but I'll be taking care of that in the span of a week then processing more and scanning more.

With a "cloud" storage, Kodak users could be ahead of others in that they get to show their real film to family, friends, clients on a laptop, notepad or even a smartphone with a good display. There are a lot of folks out there who still like film. It's a trusted medium on the client side if they don't need results instantly. It has that actual resiliency of being a tangible product that isn't going to be completely destroyed by a cosmic ray knocking a binary digit off of a solid state sector. It isn't instant though so for some work it just doesn't cut it.

I'm not saying that Kodak should go into the phone business, but only the business of expanding their film division to include cloud storage for customers. Not all customers, either. Of course, it would cost money, and those who choose to not store on the "Kloud" would just receive their images digitally and their film back in the mail at a later date. The digital files could be purged from the working non-cloud servers within x number of days.

Right now, today, I would pay a significant chunk of money for this service from Kodak but it doesn't exist yet (hopefully.) If such a service were to materialize, I'd seriously consider selling my Nikon D3 and replacing it with a compact P&S digital.

As for the films themselves, I desperately want to shoot Eastman 5222 in 120. If I could do that, I'd abandon everything else but Delta 3200 (then again, Kodak could bring back a fast B&W.) The old formulation Plus-X Pan would be nice to have as well.

Phil Forrest

 

[farlymac]

I'll go with the first suggestion...bring back Plus-X!

PF

 

[finguanzo]

Id be happy with them keeping what they have..
As far as the film services suggestions above.... maybe.. sure.
But nothing that will cost too much and make them get rid of another line of film..

 

[jsrockit]

Kodak should take a loss initially to keep the costs LOW per roll of 35mm or 120 film in order to increase volume to where the low price CAN be sustainable.

That doesn't sound like a great business strategy in 2014. Film is dead to the average consumer.

 

[Takkun]

Actually, that's a pretty great idea. I'm sure you've all used online printing services, like Snapfish and the like, which actually have had cloud storage for as long as I can remember.
But it's horrifically slow and hard to navigate. I always wondered who they thought was uploading and sorting hundreds of photos on this interface that looks like it's out of the 90s... Something that syncs to iPhoto/Aperture/ etc would be pretty nice.
My 2¢--I don't have high hopes to bring back slide film or 220, but I'm surprised there isn't a slow-speed traditional-train film in their lineup.

 

[KM-25]

Get thier high prices for B/W film to average price range.

They are the same as Ilford for the most part so I am not quite sure where this is coming from. They just rose the price on TMY2 in 4x5 up quite a bit, whatever it takes to keep that amazing emulsion around. Other than that, they are pretty much equal to Ilford in price.

All this talk of bringing stuff back is insane, I don't see people beating Ilford to a pulp with these witch hunts, so why Kodak? Plus-x, Kodachrome, Extachrome, it is not coming back because not enough people bought it, why is that so hard to understand?

A sane person would want to keep what is currently offered still around which is *really* good, not for what is not coming back.

As far as developing and scanning infrastructure, the numbers just are not there and people who are serious about using film have already engaged in the means in which to get that result. A D800 with a macro lens on a masked light table is damn near as good as my Nikon 9000ED for a quick and dirty scan for web and all that jazz and will even print good. In order to do better, one has to get a high end Imacon or drum scan.

The real future of film is black and white and that is in the darkroom, scanning does not come close to what that process offers and that is why Ilford has hedged the bet they have and will continue to do better and better with it.

I left APUG for good since it is all bashing and negativity and hardly any talent. I see a lot more fine imagery being made here and less bashing, so use the Kodak, Fuji and Ilford films you love and keep it positive, otherwise you will turn this place too into a graveyard of has beens as people go elsewhere.

 

[Noll]

Some good ideas here - if they were to re-introduce film stocks, it could make sense as a seasonal thing - like craft beer. One run every 2-3 years even would suffice for most buffs who stock up anyway. If fuji drops e-6 completely I'd hope they reconsider theIr e100 films.

So far has anyone here actually sent any of their ideas to Kodak?

 

[stompyq]

I think all the talk on getting back dead emulsions is not going to happen. I agree with KM-25 about keeping the already good emulsions going. Maybe even dropping slide film altogether and concentrating on negative film only for color products. I also like the idea of a film processing and scanning service specifically for color negatives.

 

[MrFujicaman]

I agree with Noll...do runs of film like Ilford does with ULF B& W films. Set a date and if there is enough of a demand, make a run of the film. I'd love to see IR color silde film again. Kodachrome would be nice, but I doubt that'd happen due to the toxic chemicals used in it's processing.

What I'd like to see is a ISO 25-32 T-grain film.....that would be utterly grainless !

And seasonal runs of developers---Microdol-X...prepackaged D-23...or at least SELL the formulas for the stuff they don't want to make anymore.

 

[KM-25]

I agree with Noll...do runs of film like Ilford does with ULF B& W films.

It does not work that way....

Those emulsion types and base thicknesses already exist in other sizes, they simply cut larger sizes off of master rolls that serve current catalog numbers. Ilford makes Pan-F in 35mm and 120, same base thickness. But they do not and will not offer it in large format, despite people asking for it.

What people are asking for with films like Plus-X and E-6 to be re-introduced is a much, much bigger capitol investment, far too risky for a company who just got out of bankruptcy.

I am just at a complete loss as to why people keep asking for films that were discontinued because they did not sell enough, went out of date and become a loss proposition for both the company who made it and the retailers who sold it.

Again, a person who is actually into making great photographs will clearly see that the best we can hope for is that the rate that films get discontinued slows down....because it is not going to stop...

Three things you can count on in film photography:

1. Prices will continue to rise.
2. The selection of films will shrink.
3. Black & white will be the last man standing.

 

[rybolt]

Read the interview. He has about 30 seconds of comments about film and it's pretty apparent that it isn't a big priority for him. He looks at it as 'retro'. If anything good is going to happen it's going to be via a business partner who comes on board and does the heavy lifting and the financing. Kodak is NOT going to put any more money into a small market product. I wouldn't be surprised to see them exit the film business within two years if they don't find a dance partner to take it over.
Just my opinion as a 35 year customer of Kodak's and a close observer of the current company.

 

[RedLion]

Took a look at the interview with the Kodak Alaris CEO just now.
http://www.democratandchronicle.com...kodak-alaris-ceo-lots-change-quickly/7465411/

D&C: What about the camera film business? Are there growth opportunities there at all?
RG: We will continue the film business as long as there's a profitable market out there. Film is still in demand. We're happy to provide this ... as long as it makes sense for us. And at the moment it makes sense for us.
D&C: Given the trend lines you've undoubtedly been looking at, is this a business that has three years? Five years? Ten years? How long does this last?
RG: You never know. Maybe next year there's kind of a retro, how do you say ....
D&C: Like LPs?
RG: That's a good example. They're coming back right now.

I think you're right. Looks like they're just going to continue to ride it out. For color film, it looks like it's up to Lomography to try and buck the trend. With the continued decline of cost effective and convenient development and scanning facilities, DIY B&W will be the last man standing.

 

[David Hughes]

It does not work that way....

Those emulsion types and base thicknesses already exist in other sizes, they simply cut larger sizes off of master rolls that serve current catalog numbers. Ilford makes Pan-F in 35mm and 120, same base thickness. But they do not and will not offer it in large format, despite people asking for it.

What people are asking for with films like Plus-X and E-6 to be re-introduced is a much, much bigger capitol investment, far too risky for a company who just got out of bankruptcy.

I am just at a complete loss as to why people keep asking for films that were discontinued because they did not sell enough, went out of date and become a loss proposition for both the company who made it and the retailers who sold it.

Again, a sane person who is actually into making great photographs will clearly see that the best we can hope for is that the rate that films get discontinued slows down....because it is not going to stop...

Three things you can count on in film photography:

1. Prices will continue to rise.
2. The selection of films will shrink.
3. Black & white will be the last man standing.

Hi,

My guess is that they didn't sell in the quantities Kodak were geared up to make and so were abandoned. Ilford etc aren't geared up to make the same sort of quantities as Kodak did at their peak and so I guess Ilford have less problems and are even expanding.

Regards, David

 

[Ranchu]

Film's all Kodak Alaris has got, CEO better wise up!

"Background: Former general manager of Motorola Mobility. Was with Motorola in various executive capacities for close to 18 years."

 

[rybolt]

My unsolicited opinion is that the split between Eastman Kodak's Printer Division and the Alaris Division is strictly to keep the imaging business from becoming even more of a drag on the printing side. The printing side is quite healthy and is the only thing that's kept them going this long. Well, that and the patents that they hold.
The big tipoff to me is that the name of the company is Kodak Alaris. Did any of you EVER know an Eastman Kodak employee who did not always refer to the company as Eastman Kodak?

 

[Ranchu]

Failing to see how profitable is a drag. I doubt Sigma's making any money on those Merrill's though.

🙂

 

[Takkun]

Hi,

My guess is that they didn't sell in the quantities Kodak were geared up to make and so were abandoned. Ilford etc aren't geared up to make the same sort of quantities as Kodak did at their peak and so I guess Ilford have less problems and are even expanding.

Regards, David

Agreed. The age-old debate is that film isn't going away; its just a changing and shrinking market. If you look at a lot of industries with big players like this, historically they fell not because people stopped buying the product, but because they are too invested in high-volume and couldn't switch gears fast enough to stay profitable. Much like the camera industry is doing now: people aren't *not* buying cameras, but the market has changed and Canon/Nikon are struggling to keep up. The CEOs remark about vinyl seems pretty accurate: its a viable craft now undertaken on a smaller scale.

Ilford, Impossible Project, and Adox are all humming away making film. Now, lest this devolve into another 'is film dead' thread, I'll say that I'd like to see Kodak maintain current BW emulsions, since that's a niche that isn't competing directly with digital in the same way color is.
I also would disagree that their isn't a need for scanning services; I think there's a middle tier that would like a convenient process-and-scan option. Here in Seattle, I know of only two independent shops that do high-end scanning, and thankfully our local Bartell's drugstore chain does it on-site with marginal results. I think of a lot of hobbyist photographers shooting film (such as the handful of Lomographers I know) who don't have a middle ground between Bartells/Walgreens and shelling out big bucks and time for a home scanning solution.
I think here on the forums a lot of us are very serious about film, wet printing and being entirely self-sufficient, and it's easy to forget that not all casual hobbyist photographers are shooting digital or as control-oriented as we are (or in the case of my mother, has me to develop and scan all her photos!)

 

[KM-25]

Film's all Kodak Alaris has got, CEO better wise up!

He is *plenty* wise, he has just taken over a company that is still regrouping into what it needs to be and it needs to be a lot more than just film, like it or not….

Cumulatively speaking, he has hundreds of years of top notch expertise in regards to the manufacture, marketing and industry of film at his disposal, those people keep him informed. Not any of the arm chair speculators have the numbers he and his management staff has, have no idea if they are trying to re-engineer Bldg. 38 to be able to take on industry needs other than film, create a new more cost effective facility or scrap the whole idea after a few years because the numbers just don’t add up. And if they don’t add up, then THAT IS BUSINESS, at least they are still trying or did try.

As far as Ilford being the size of operation they are, they got to the new pie first, and in all reality, there may not be enough in terms of year end sales in the next decade to support a whole bunch of makers of film anyway.

None of us have any idea in how close or how far they are away from settling on a solution for keeping the quality films they have currently going into the future or not. And you are not supposed to know, that is none of your business. There are plenty of business in the world that don’t share information, most for that matter and yet somehow, people on the good old internet seem to think it is right to keep prying their way up the nose of a company like Kodak and cry foul when they don’t make a special trip to your front door step to fill you in.

Kodak Alaris needs to make all they have at their disposal work as best as it can. If changes need to happen, you can expect them to be prudent in their decision making and that might include making changes to product lines including Kodak film offerings.

We have a brand new Kodak here that is still trying to chart a course through scalability issues…