Kodak Film 5203 - Color Film ISO 50

[x-ray]

Yeah, Velvia is back in my bag as of last week... been using that forever. As far as processing, scanning, etc. I do my own 35 mm most of the time but time is quite limited for me so I send it out more and more lately. Especially my medium format negs.

Still playing and having fun!

We photographers are a curious sort aren't we? 🙂🙂🙂

I've shot enough Velvia to not be in love with it. I like it but it's Soooo contrasty. The contrast makes it more difficult for most people to hit a good exposure and highlight are more difficult to hold as are shadow detail.

Take a look at Provia. Provia is much more moderate contrast and handles contrasty light much better than Velvia. Saturation is a touch lower but it's easy to boost if needed in post processing.

The big issue with a contrasty film vs a moderate contrast film is once you have high contrast you can't effectively reduce it where as you can easily increase contrast in a film that has moderate contrast.

Color transparency film is much easier to scan also.

I rarely see what I'd call acceptable color and results from color negative scans. I don't know if people don't know what good color is or whether they do no post processing or simply accept what their scanner kicks out first scan.

I have a good idea where some of the problems come from with color neg. From what i read on RFF it's common to exceed capacity and useful life of chemistry. This often results in color crossover that can't be easily corrected. Running film in the incorrect chemistry also results in poor results.

I'd suggest sticking with transparency film not negs.

 

[DrMcCoy]

The Portra films are the Vision 3 films with slight reworking for C41. Dunno if this helps your decision.

 

[Corran]

I rarely see what I'd call acceptable color and results from color negative scans. I don't know if people don't know what good color is or whether they do no post processing or simply accept what their scanner kicks out first scan.

I have a good idea where some of the problems come from with color neg. From what i read on RFF it's common to exceed capacity and useful life of chemistry. This often results in color crossover that can't be easily corrected. Running film in the incorrect chemistry also results in poor results.

It has nothing to do with capacity and everything to do with many film shooters having no idea how to scan C-41 and/or post-process the scan to correct colors or render them how they want to see them. This can be seen in the many, many washed out bluish and muddy images taken on C-41 film and posted online.

In fact I believe the majority of people don't do their own C-41...though more and more are moving to that as a way to decrease costs.

Also so many people are shooting expired films, sometimes really expired, and oftentimes poorly kept.

One other thing I have learned is to not try to pull the highlights down so much with color neg. Trying to get deep blue in the sky for example is a futile effort and will just muck up the photo. Liberal use of contrast curves to get a light and airy photograph is where color neg shines (for example, see many wedding photos from film photographers with high-key editing, which has become very popular).

 

[x-ray]

It has nothing to do with capacity and everything to do with many film shooters having no idea how to scan C-41 and/or post-process the scan to correct colors or render them how they want to see them. This can be seen in the many, many washed out bluish and muddy images taken on C-41 film and posted online.

In fact I believe the majority of people don't do their own C-41...though more and more are moving to that as a way to decrease costs.

Also so many people are shooting expired films, sometimes really expired, and oftentimes poorly kept.

Here's some Portra 160 dev'd in my darkroom with chemicals way past capacity:

One other thing I have learned is to not try to pull the highlights down so much with color neg. Trying to get deep blue in the sky for example is a futile effort and will just muck up the photo. Liberal use of contrast curves to get a light and airy photograph is where color neg shines (for example, see many wedding photos from film photographers with high-key editing, which has become very popular).

I'll agree that most people have no idea how to scan color negs but disagree about capacity. Capacity and age play a significant part in achieving proper color. C-41 is a much more critical process than most people realize. You might get away with over capacity processing and out of date chemicals on some subjects but other times it's show up as crossover and for color. Just run a control strip in fresh chemistry and read it on a densitometer and then one after you've exceeded your capacity and chemicals are old. You'll see quite a difference that results in degradation of the image.

 

[dave lackey]

Ta da!

I forgot I had some Provia in my other bags... just found them and another few rolls in my desk. Right where I put them.🙂

Looks like I will be entertained for awhile if the weather cooperates and I am able to actually get out and about.

I really do prefer transparencies and yes, I get worn out with Velvia at times. I guess I haven't yet settled on the best end use for it, yet. We will see how my Provia works out soon.

 

[x-ray]

Ta da!

I forgot I had some Provia in my other bags... just found them and another few rolls in my desk. Right where I put them.🙂

Looks like I will be entertained for awhile if the weather cooperates and I am able to actually get out and about.

I really do prefer transparencies and yes, I get worn out with Velvia at times. I guess I haven't yet settled on the best end use for it, yet. We will see how my Provia winks out soon.

I really love the look of transparency film. Over my career I can't even guess how many sheets and rolls I've shot. IMO there's not much more beautiful that a light box full of properly exposed and processed transparencies. I met my wife as a client, creative director of a chain of retail stores. We shot a lot of housewares and fashion and it was common to shoot two or three days a week and expose 45-75 rolls of 120 Provia a day. That many rolls on a big light box is truly beautiful.

I still have portfolio case full of 8x10 chromes that I take out once in a while to remind myself of what photography used to be.

The good thing is Kodak says they're getting ready to bring back askew broke which will give us more choices.

The sad part is, we had quite a commercial photo industry around here and enough E6 processing to support 3 full time E6 labs and one consumer E6 lab.

My favorite lab is gone now, E6 of Atlanta. They had the secret to making transparencies sparkle. I don't know what they did but their process was special.

 

[charjohncarter]

My favorite lab is gone now, E6 of Atlanta. They had the secret to making transparencies sparkle. I don't know what they did but their process was special.

I wasn't ever a pro photographer, and I used 35mm slides late 50s to the early 80s. But there was a difference in development. I was so sloppy and moving around so much I never really got a handle on which lab was best. Sometimes you would take it to the drug store, but the next time the 2x2 holders were different; so you never knew.

My father-in-law took this 35mm slide (Kodachrome 10) in 1948. How nice is this for 70 years ago.

Kodachrome from 1948 by W.K. Amonette by John Carter, on Flickr

 

[DKimg]

I've experimented while I was in China and love it! In fact, I think I prefer the 250D over the 50D. I have both examples in a 120 format. Now that I'm back in the states, I'm working on bulk loading vision film and just continue to experiment. Really like it over portra film...

Hasselblad 203FE / 110 Planar f2
Kodak Vision3 50D / ECN-2
PMT Drum Scan


Rolleiflex 2.8F
Kodak Vision3 250D / ECN-2
Hasselblad X5 Scan
​

 

[dave lackey]

WOW!!!

Just got back to check in and your photos made my day! These are beautiful! What is the key to shooting and processing for you?🙂🙂🙂

 

[dave lackey]

I wasn't ever a pro photographer, and I used 35mm slides late 50s to the early 80s. But there was a difference in development. I was so sloppy and moving around so much I never really got a handle on which lab was best. Sometimes you would take it to the drug store, but the next time the 2x2 holders were different; so you never knew.

My father-in-law took this 35mm slide (Kodachrome 10) in 1948. How nice is this for 70 years ago.

Kodachrome from 1948 by W.K. Amonette by John Carter, on Flickr

Thanks for reminding me, John, I pulled some 50yr old slides out of the storage boxes recently and I was stunned with the quality of them... gorgeous and stunning to realize how old they were.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

How about Ektar? That film is ASA100 and is stunning! Ektachrome is coming back as well. I know I'm going to get some when it is readily available.

As for the slow, motion picture film, I'm looking forward to exposing some 16mm. I'm really wanting to do some handheld with 500T.

Phil Forrest

 

[dave lackey]

How about Ektar? That film is ASA100 and is stunning! Ektachrome is coming back as well. I know I'm going to get some when it is readily available.

As for the slow, motion picture film, I'm looking forward to exposing some 16mm. I'm really wanting to do some handheld with 500T.

Phil Forrest

I am using Ektar frequently, but not too sure about the processing at my local lab, sometimes the colors are a little different/crazy. Now, I admit to looking forward to some Ektachrome!

Phil, when you guys get the 16mm movie sorted out, I am very interested to see the results! What film do you plan on using?

 

[DKimg]

WOW!!!

Just got back to check in and your photos made my day! These are beautiful! What is the key to shooting and processing for you?🙂🙂🙂

I think the developing and the scanning are the two key things for Vision film. Have done some C41 test and so far I haven't gotten a system that works as well as ECN2. I'm just really considering going for ECN2 and skip C41. The next experimental steps is figuring out when is the best to remove the remjet. I've heard from a few fellow photogs that they remove it before they develop it (in-tank), after developing, or remove it entirely before they even put it on the reel. Keeping tabs as I go 🙂

 

[x-ray]

I wasn't ever a pro photographer, and I used 35mm slides late 50s to the early 80s. But there was a difference in development. I was so sloppy and moving around so much I never really got a handle on which lab was best. Sometimes you would take it to the drug store, but the next time the 2x2 holders were different; so you never knew.

My father-in-law took this 35mm slide (Kodachrome 10) in 1948. How nice is this for 70 years ago.

Kodachrome from 1948 by W.K. Amonette by John Carter, on Flickr

I remember my dad shooting Kodachrome 10. The first Kodachrome I shot was around 1966 or 67 when I got my Minolta SRT101. Score that I shot a few rolls of 127 Ektachrome and Kodacolor.

When I got to college and was working as a PJ full time I shot quite a bit of Ektachrome Professional 120 and Ektachrome X and Highspeed Ektachrome. I still have quite a few Ektachrome X and Ektachrome Professional transparencies that haven't faded and the color is beautiful. I especially loved the more pastel look of EP vs the saturated EX. Both were beautiful though.

The first Ektachrome I ran was E3 process in the 60's and into the 70's. It was lower temperature and used a light exposure to reverse the film between the first developer and color developer. It was a really nice process but if I remember correctly it took about an hour to run.

E4 process came out in the early 70's and was for all but EP and IR color. E4 was higher temp and I think 30 minutes process time and eliminated the reversal exposure by adding an adative to the color developer that chemically fogged the color layer.

I think it was mid 70's that E6 came out with much higher temps.

The first color neg I ran was C22 process. Unfortunately films of that era weren't very stable and most have faded to the point they're unusable.

Around 1975 C41 came out and was higher temp and gave much more stable color although color negs still don't hold up nearly as well as E6 film.

 

[x-ray]

DK those are the best scans I've seen from color neg. you've found the secret. Have you generated your own profiles? Using a canned profile as a starting point or scanning linear.

Really good scanners help too. I have an 848 Imacon but don't fool with neg color every few years. I'm really a transparency shooter but transparencies are a breeze to scan.

Before the 848 I had a Fuji Lanovia Quattro what had Fuji profiles but still was never satisfied with the look. Part of that may have been I'm just not accustomed to looking at color neg scans vs seeing transparency scans all the time.

Very nice work! And beautiful shots.

 

[DKimg]

DK those are the best scans I've seen from color neg. you've found the secret. Have you generated your own profiles? Using a canned profile as a starting point or scanning linear.

Really good scanners help too. I have an 848 Imacon but don't fool with neg color every few years. I'm really a transparency shooter but transparencies are a breeze to scan.

Before the 848 I had a Fuji Lanovia Quattro what had Fuji profiles but still was never satisfied with the look. Part of that may have been I'm just not accustomed to looking at color neg scans vs seeing transparency scans all the time.

Very nice work! And beautiful shots.

Honestly, that's what I'm working on now, Making sure profiles are set as I scan the frames. I've only set the white points on the drum and make sure that the scans are 16Bit...nothing adjusted. I mess around with gamma corrections and exposure, and adjustment curves per color channel in PS.

What does help is having a calibrated monitor too? Let me tell ya, I kept having cooler tones when I had the monitor uncorrected. Drove me nuts.

I'm still relatively new to drum scanning, so its a work in progress.

But I'm glad you love the results as much as I do! 😀

 

[x-ray]

I run calibrations on my monitor regularly. I guess Ive just not dedicated enough time to color neg scanning.

 

[J enea]

scanning color neg is not really that hard. using vuescan makes it really easy. do a preview, select some blank area between shots, re-preview, lock exposure, re-preview, then lock film base. then rescan the entire neg. takes an extra 2 minutes initially but saves lots of time in photoshop or whatever you use to post process. it can be that simple and yet it gives much better results over using canned profiles. record the film base numbers and red, green and blue level numbers and use those for future rolls and you are ahead of 90% of home scanners.

 

[wjlapier]

Velvia 100 in a Leica IF using sunny 16. I'd use it on a nice sunny day when I can count on the exposure being consistent. Sent to Dwaynes but did the scan in my Coolscan V.



Ektar 120 in a Fuji GS645s. Same sunny 16 estimation. I developed this and scanned in an Epson V500.



I'm not one to use too much post editing to color film. These both were done with Vuescan pretty much auto everything.

 

[dave lackey]

I really love the look of transparency film. Over my career I can't even guess how many sheets and rolls I've shot. IMO there's not much more beautiful that a light box full of properly exposed and processed transparencies. I met my wife as a client, creative director of a chain of retail stores. We shot a lot of housewares and fashion and it was common to shoot two or three days a week and expose 45-75 rolls of 120 Provia a day. That many rolls on a big light box is truly beautiful.

I still have portfolio case full of 8x10 chromes that I take out once in a while to remind myself of what photography used to be.

The good thing is Kodak says they're getting ready to bring back askew broke which will give us more choices.

The sad part is, we had quite a commercial photo industry around here and enough E6 processing to support 3 full time E6 labs and one consumer E6 lab.

My favorite lab is gone now, E6 of Atlanta. They had the secret to making transparencies sparkle. I don't know what they did but their process was special.

Hmmm... has anyone followed the whereabouts of those talented folks previously at E6? Surely they are still around somewhere...🙂