Mackinaw
Think Different
This is from a thread over on Photrio about how Kodak's movie films are also seeing large increases in sales:
- demand for 35mm film is up by 155% during the last four years
- demand for 16mm film is up by 206% during the last four years
- demand for 8mm film is up by 407% during the last four years.
(Data given by Steve Bellamy, President Motion Picture & Entertainment, Eastman Kodak).
Jim B.
Skiff
Well-known
Fact check:
The demand for movie film is even much more increasing than the demand for photo film:
Numbers:
1) Demand for 35mm movie film has increased by 155% in the last 4 years
2) Demand for 16mm movie film has grown by 206% in the same period
and
4) 8mm film is even 407% higher
5) 4 new movie film labs have been new opened by Kodak, and another one is planned.
6) Their lab in NY alone has developed 6 billion meter of film since opening.
Source: Kodaks movie film manager in
https://www.kameramann.de/technik/i...v_a4pBRBuUKuQKHnIyUZCB0S7O9wMHE2LovVtpzeTJfnc
madNbad
Well-known
Hardins' Home for Wayward Kameras! Keeping film alive with one neglected P&S at a time.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Why do I got fool anyone?
I am just stating an opinion, my opinion.
Do you really think that highly polished silver plated copper was at any time inexpensive or mercury metal was inexpensive or healthy for you or eco friendly when heated and or spilled or in contact with live skin?
Or that Daguerreotype making was not cumbersome as opposed to modern film or digital photography?
Everything eventually goes away...including us. For instance, I don't know many corset and hooped skirt makers anymore other than a few for stage plays or for Hollywood films.
Now tell me where I lied or fudged the truth?
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
I'm not arguing that at all. It's also not hard to create 400% more demand when the low point was so low that any increase would be very significant. Print stock is still barely being made because of limited distribution. When less than 10% of theaters still use and maintain film projectors (and employ a person to run them,) the demand simply can't return. The biggest selling films of the last decade have been digital works. The Marvel universe. Everything by Disney in the last 10 years. A billion dollars in revenue all going to digital production and distribution from the storyboard to the audience's eyeballs. The industry is simply different, using different media. There are a good number of directors shooting on film but it's hard to find a theater that projects it still.
Phil Forrest
benlees
Well-known
Nobody is making the case the film sales haven't increased in the last 4 years. Whether that increase is a blip of a downward trend, or a stabilization or an actual indication of a potential full recovery of the film industry (the height of which was 2001), is the issue.
If you had a valuable investment that had tanked- in fact had fallen to $1 but had recovered to $5- would you be happy if your investment advisor had kept that part to himself but had told you that your portfolio had increased 400%?
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
If you had a valuable investment that had tanked- in fact had fallen to $1 but had recovered to $5- would you be happy if your investment advisor had kept that part to himself but had told you that your portfolio had increased 400%?
^^^^^
This, exactly.
Phi Forrest
analoged
Well-known
In a recent email from Cinelab, who I use for my Super8/Super16mm needs...
"We saw more than 3000 rolls of S8mm and 500,000+ ft of 16mm in the lab in Nov and Dec."
Thats a lot of film and just one motion picture lab...
"We saw more than 3000 rolls of S8mm and 500,000+ ft of 16mm in the lab in Nov and Dec."
Thats a lot of film and just one motion picture lab...
Skiff
Well-known
If you had a valuable investment that had tanked- in fact had fallen to $1 but had recovered to $5- would you be happy if your investment advisor had kept that part to himself but had told you that your portfolio had increased 400%?
A wrong comparison.
Because no film shooter needs film consumption on the record level of 2001. That former level is irrelevant to the current market.
All what is needed is
- profitable film production
- the excellent film quality we are used too
- certain re-introductions of former films and or / new films.
And that is exactly what has started to happen and will continue in the coming years.
Skiff
Well-known
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
NFL films stopped using 16mm in 2014 when they switched to Arri digital cameras. Every football game in the country, every week, was covered by no less than six cameras, rolling for the entire game. Each camera shot over 4,000ft of film each game. THATS a lot of film. When they made the digital switch, Kodak lost its largest 16mm customer and many college film programs had to limit their students' film shooting (or completely pass on production budget to the students) as a result of the lack of low cost development and telecine. A little film domino effect.
In these threads I always mention motion picture film because the manufacture of film, in the case of Kodak and Fuji, was based upon economy of scale. Making the film had to be profitable over letting the machines idle. Since all of the film stocks are created on essentially the same production lines, making MP film is far more profitable per foot than some small run of still stock. This is why I shoot 5222. Its cheaper and I want it to stick around.
Phil Forrest
In these threads I always mention motion picture film because the manufacture of film, in the case of Kodak and Fuji, was based upon economy of scale. Making the film had to be profitable over letting the machines idle. Since all of the film stocks are created on essentially the same production lines, making MP film is far more profitable per foot than some small run of still stock. This is why I shoot 5222. Its cheaper and I want it to stick around.
Phil Forrest
Corran
Well-known
Yes, it absolutely is.
I do not believe a "recovery" is defined as returning to the highest point in history for sales. I believe it to be a recovery from the lowest point, to hopefully something sustainable and long-lasting. This is a good sign.
No one here is trying to say film can/will "recover" to pre-digital sales levels. Nor does it need to.
You and others have clearly made your opinion known and at the end of the day your/my opinion is irrelevant. Back to the darkroom now.
teddy
Jose Morales
I'm a carer and live on a pension to look after my wife, and I do not find film expensive, but I do feel for those folks that find it difficult to afford it. Everyone's situation is different.
oldwino
Well-known
Orson Welles once said “the enemy of Art is the absence of limitations.”
analoged
Well-known
Massachusetts
Skiff
Well-known
Thanks.
I didn't know them.
Very interesting to see another such a big and busy lab in addition to the Kodak movie labs.
Guth
Appreciative User
I find it interesting watching the film revival play out. As far as the long term prospects are concerned it is truly a guessing game. The key milestone that I am watching for is the return of a new, affordable film camera. However, I honestly have no idea what the odds are of this happening.
As far as the digital imaging side of the equation is concerned I would guess that the biggest change will come by way of the devices used for image capture. Since the data itself is not reliant on any established standards, the iPhone will likely have more in common with the primary capture devices of the future than the digital cameras we know today.
From a "big picture" perspective there is a part of me that feels film photography still be around to record the demise of the human race. That is not to say that film will be around for a incredibly lengthy amount of time as relatively speaking the health of our planet seems more bleak to me than the health of the film industry.
As far as the digital imaging side of the equation is concerned I would guess that the biggest change will come by way of the devices used for image capture. Since the data itself is not reliant on any established standards, the iPhone will likely have more in common with the primary capture devices of the future than the digital cameras we know today.
From a "big picture" perspective there is a part of me that feels film photography still be around to record the demise of the human race. That is not to say that film will be around for a incredibly lengthy amount of time as relatively speaking the health of our planet seems more bleak to me than the health of the film industry.
GarageBoy
Well-known
I feel like very few photographers in 2020 are actually developing and printing their own - I've helped a bunch of people try film - they're all happy shooting a Canon AE1 or equivalent or some full auto point and shoot, with whatever lens happened to be on it when they bought it, and the only film choice that matters to them is "black and white film" or "color film" - and most of the time, they just care about the scans...
Still glad it's keeping Kodak alive a bit, until they figure out what to do next
Still glad it's keeping Kodak alive a bit, until they figure out what to do next
