Kodak T-Max and purple negatives

[Tijmendal]

Hi,

I bought a bunch of T-Max 100 for a really good price a while ago; not something I'd normally shoot, but for the price I couldn't pass it up. I shot a bunch of the rolls and only developed them recently. The negatives came out really purple, I was a little surprised but didn't think much of it (just like how color negatives barely show any color). Now, the other day I did another batch and I noticed there was some weird streaking going on, like they weren't purplish all-over like my other negatives. Then I did a little Google search and it turns out this is a common problem with T-Max; apparently it's residual dye?
My question is: can I wash of the dye now that the film has dried? I'm guessing yes, but just checking.
Any others have this problem?

 

[sevo]

Yes, you can safely re-wash them. But a even easier way would be to leave the film sheets out in the sunlight for a day or two - the (sensitizer) dye that causes the pink stain does fade very fast.

 

[troym]

I think the purple is from the anti-halation layer. You can re-wash the negatives, and the color should come out. But I'm not sure about the streaking. That sounds like a separate issue.

Do you use hypo clearing agent (fixer remover)? I find that it gets out the purple with less washing.

 

[Mackinaw]

Washing 15 - 20 minutes will eliminate most of the purple tint. Some folks also fix the film a bit longer too. And yes, T-max films are a bit fussier than other B&W films.

Jim B.

 

[Tijmendal]

I think the purple is from the anti-halation layer. You can re-wash the negatives, and the color should come out. But I'm not sure about the streaking. That sounds like a separate issue.

Do you use hypo clearing agent (fixer remover)? I find that it gets out the purple with less washing.

No, I don't use hypo, but plan on adding it to the process (especially for these kind of fims).

Thanks for the answers guys. I'll just chuck all the negative strips in a big pan and wash 'em in there...

 

[Tom A]

T Max films are sensitive to the age and usage of the fix. If your fix has been used for other films and is "getting on" in age, it will also give you a purple cast. I use fresh fixer when shooting Tmax -seems to clear out the purple cast.

 

[Classique]

I usually pre wash T-max in water to get rid of the purple layer. From the sound of it from above posters, it does wash off after too.

 

[N.delaRua]

I've developed both 120 and 35 mm T-Max 100, and only the 120 had a purple fluid that I saw come off after a pre wash. I remember being surprised and my darkroom instructor informed me that it was normal with that film in 120. The color was quite dark and concentrated.

However, the same was not true with the 35 mm film. The water was always clear from the pre-wash.

Are you shooting 35 mm or 120? I never had a purple tint on the negatives but we always pre-washed if I remember correctly.

 

[Tijmendal]

T Max films are sensitive to the age and usage of the fix. If your fix has been used for other films and is "getting on" in age, it will also give you a purple cast. I use fresh fixer when shooting Tmax -seems to clear out the purple cast.

Are you saying there's a difference between the 'natural' purple in the film and purpling caused by older fixer?

 

[N.delaRua]

Are you shooting 120 or 35 mm?

 

[Cold]

I just developed a roll of this (35 mm) last week.

The pre-wash came out purple and the negs were clean thereafter. Seems to jive with what most are saying.

 

[sevo]

Are you saying there's a difference between the 'natural' purple in the film and purpling caused by older fixer?

No, it is the same issue. The sensitizing dye used in T-Max (as well as new Tri-X and many recent Kodak colour films) is barely soluble in water - alkalines (developer) and especially sulfites (in fresh fixer and hypo clearing agent) speed up the process, while acids (fixer) slow it down. Whether the fixer will help or not will depend on its formulation and condition.

 

[sevo]

I just developed a roll of this (35 mm) last week.

The pre-wash came out purple and the negs were clean thereafter. Seems to jive with what most are saying.

That is a different matter, the dye that dissolves within seconds in the pre-wash (or developer) is the antihalation layer dye. As the dyes used there do not need to have any optically active properties (besides summing up to black or at least dark), they can be chosen by solubility, and don't have the same issues as the rather special chemicals used for sensitizing.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

When I shot and developed Kodak film I had the same problem. It all stopped by fixing it for longer than usual. If you test your fixer and it clears a strip of film in two minutes (meaning, you fix for two minutes), just take twice as long if you're going to develop Kodak film.

In my case, I stopped buying it altogether and switched to Agfa. Later to Ilford. I also switched fixers (from Kodak to Ilford).

 

[troym]

That is a different matter, the dye that dissolves within seconds in the pre-wash (or developer) is the antihalation layer dye. As the dyes used there do not need to have any optically active properties (besides summing up to black or at least dark), they can be chosen by solubility, and don't have the same issues as the rather special chemicals used for sensitizing.

I think Sevo is right. It's sensitizing dye and not the antihalation layer (as I thought) that can be hard to remove. By the way, here is an earlier thread about the issue. It starts in 2009 but was revived earlier this year.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I think Sevo is right. It's sensitizing dye and not the antihalation layer (as I thought) that can be hard to remove. By the way, here is an earlier thread about the issue. It starts in 2009 but was revived earlier this year.

Was it called "purple monster" or something in this thread?
I ignored this purple issue with TMAX, seems to be not a problem, if scanning only.

 

[gsgary]

I have been stand developing some out of date Tmax100 and when i empty the developer out the liquid is very purple bit of a shock first time

 

[Highway 61]

T Max films are sensitive to the age and usage of the fix. If your fix has been used for other films and is "getting on" in age, it will also give you a purple cast. I use fresh fixer when shooting Tmax -seems to clear out the purple cast.

+1

And you must use some really good fixer (like the Tetenal Superfix Plus fixer). Don't use Rapidfixer or any other old formula fixer with T-Max.

If the purple cast is very pronounced, you must re-fix the films then re-rinse them.

Once properly fixed, any film should be rinsed for about one hour and a half under tap water. I'm very surprised to read some very shorter rinsing times here.

Prewashing T-Max will be of no effect re. this. Prewashing might be interesting for 120 films only, to remove the anti-halation layer which is on both faces of 120 films, and to avoid coloring the stop bath (which you re-use).

 

[john_s]

After fixing, washing in warm water clears the colour faster than in cold water. Watch the temperature, of course, lest it be hot enough to cause physical damage.

 

[Highway 61]

No.

The residual purple/pink colour cast of the T-Max does NOT depend on how you wash/rinse the film after having fixed it but it depends on how you FIX it.

You must use some fresh good fixer and fix for about 20 min - not less.

I use Tetenal Superfix Plus diluted at 1+9 and I fix my films for about 20 minutes, and I do agitate the tank quite regularly while fixing.

I monitor my fixer and don't fix more than 25 rolls of 135 films (or its 120 equivalent : 11 rolls) with the same liter of working fixing bath.

I have been doing this for 30 years and I do NOT have any purple cast with T-Max was it in 120 or 135.

As written above once fixed the films must be rinsed under tap water for about one hour and a half, but this is to properly eliminate the fixer in order to keep your films away from further sulfurizing (and destruction of the photos), not the colour cast which has been eliminated by the fixer already. After the ten first minutes you can reduce the tap to something very thin so that you won't use dozens of gallons of water to rinse your films.

I do hope I'm clear enough - might I become purple colored too ? 😀

Edit :

The sensitizing dye used in T-Max (as well as new Tri-X and many recent Kodak colour films) is barely soluble in water - alkalines (developer) and especially sulfites (in fresh fixer and hypo clearing agent) speed up the process, while acids (fixer) slow it down. Whether the fixer will help or not will depend on its formulation and condition.

What he said 100%.