Ambro51
Collector/Photographer
Well......the Univex Mercury II, the one with the “hump”, is half frame and also a damn good picture maker. (And about $50 on ‘bay)
RObert Budding
D'oh!
Not sure if your rant is about socialism or about communism. Either way, you didn't like it whatever system that you lived under. But it sounds as if you're anti-capitalism, too.
In a capitalist system, companies make products, and they are free to charge what they like. And you are free to buy, or not to buy. And if you don't like Kodak's prices, then buy from a competitor.
chipgreenberg
Well-known
Here's an article touting growth in Kodak's film business.
https://emulsive.org/articles/news/good-news-kodaks-film-business-grew-21-percent-in-q3-2019
So this is a good sign, unless Kodak starts making money how long will I be able to buy the film that gives me the results I like?
Really, we're either lamenting the death of film or griping it's gotten a wee bit more expensive. I want them to make money and keep making film. The cost of film is the smallest part of my materials cost at the end of the day.
https://emulsive.org/articles/news/good-news-kodaks-film-business-grew-21-percent-in-q3-2019
So this is a good sign, unless Kodak starts making money how long will I be able to buy the film that gives me the results I like?
Really, we're either lamenting the death of film or griping it's gotten a wee bit more expensive. I want them to make money and keep making film. The cost of film is the smallest part of my materials cost at the end of the day.
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
Yep.
When Eastman Kodak was one of the world’s largest companies they could be profitable and be a very healthy business with profit margins of a few cents per roll. Film is now a boutique business, the necessary margin now is likely in dollars per roll, especially for Kodak, which is still struggling to stay afloat, as opposed to Ilford which seems to be already well adjusted and dialed in to manufacturing and market realities. More efficient, IOW.
Maybe Kodak survives, maybe they don’t, but I’m looking at this price increase as a drowning man coming up for air, not greed. If Kodak can ever get the film business right sized, profitable and stable, I would expect them to then be in a position to become more “competitive” in terms of price.
Surviving long enough to get to that point is the challenge. Raising prices in this environment is a risk, granted, but it may well have been their only option for survival. You can’t sell all your products as loss leaders indefinitely.
traveler_101
American abroad
Ko.Fe has an idea what he is talking about: austerity which has been a price to pay in controlled economies. Norway was never a communist country, but its social democracy was in some ways austere - particularly when it came to "luxuries" like nice fresh food. I had a little smakbit (taste) here in Oslo when I arrived in the 1990s and lived on the old working class side of town. Most grocery stores had limited stocks and almost no fresh food. Larger supermarkets from Europe were stocked but were too expensive on my salary. The state liquor store was Soviet style - walk up to a counter, the wares were in the back. No quotas but prices were high.
traveler_101
American abroad
Exactly - prices reflect scale of the market and costs - for refurbishing equipment and securing the supply train. My understanding though is that Kodak made money last quarter. Film sales are up significantly. See link above.
RObert Budding
D'oh!
He seems to dislike all economic systems. Capitalism uses price as a way to 'ration' products in short supply. That, in theory, creates incentives to expand production - assuming that there is some measure of competition in markets.
Hogarth Ferguson
Well-known
I'm glad to see someone with some sense. Not here, but in the other places I frequent, people complain about every price increase.
If what Adox says is true, which I assume it is, prices for film are too low. The only way to train new people, reinvest in your equipment, is to raise prices. If it costs 4 dollars to make a roll and you sell it for 4.10, you're only covering your costs and a little extra.
At the end of the day, I'll pay for film no matter what the cost (within reason) and just shoot accordingly. I budget for this hobby of mine, and as long as film is being made, I'll likely be a film shooter.
css9450
Veteran
The irony being: he's in Canada where "black Friday" is even more arbitrary than it is in the US because in Canada its not attached to an adjacent holiday. Thanksgiving in Canada is in October.
I remember some years ago, one of the major automakers announced one of its models was to be discontinued and the factory closed (and thousands put out of work). The announcement was made at the close of the business day on the evening before Thanksgiving, perhaps in hopes that the media wouldn't give it much coverage. At least that is what the pundits assumed was the case. As it turned out, it was the lead story on the TV news that night.
If the pundits were right (obviously no one knows for sure), the bad news of the factory closure and layoffs were much more sinister than the horrible bad news that this thread is all about. Hey, they're still making the film, right? Just enjoy it. Pack a bag lunch a couple times a month and save some money to pay for film. Sell some gear you're not using. Etc, etc. Heck there's probably some loose change under your sofa cushions and on the floor of the car.
leicapixie
Well-known
To anyone not having lived under the "freedom of communism" or authoritarian state, intellectuals can find wonders in misery..
Cuba is a tragedy ongoing.
Screw the old junk cars, peeling paint and falling down buildings..
I'm sure Fidel's house had no leaks and he needed many to carry his groceries home..
Film was a lousy mark-up when i briefly carried film (Fuji) in my store..
I love film but at last few camera sales here in Toronto,
i did NOT replace any film..and Kodak Tri-X for one, is a distant relative to the original..
I have not used Kodak since the 70's..
Use Ilford. Use Digital esp for color.
Clients then would not pay for film costs and processing..
Cuba is a tragedy ongoing.
Screw the old junk cars, peeling paint and falling down buildings..
I'm sure Fidel's house had no leaks and he needed many to carry his groceries home..
Film was a lousy mark-up when i briefly carried film (Fuji) in my store..
I love film but at last few camera sales here in Toronto,
i did NOT replace any film..and Kodak Tri-X for one, is a distant relative to the original..
I have not used Kodak since the 70's..
Use Ilford. Use Digital esp for color.
Clients then would not pay for film costs and processing..
Hogarth Ferguson
Well-known
This really isn't the point of the thread, and I'm no fan of communism. However, if you think peeling paint, falling down buildings, and an authority figure living in luxury are specific to communism, I've got some amazing news for you.
halfaninchawater
Established
I have an old box of 120 Kodak Verichrome Pan that expired in 1959 with the price tag still in tact. Film cost: $0.70, Tax: $.03, Total: $0.73. Per a number of inflation calculators I used, the price for the film in 2019 dollars would be $6.44 adjusting for inflation. The price for 120 Tri-X today at B&H is $6.99 when purchased in a 5 pack.
This seems to back up your concept that the cost of film like everything else in life has gone up. And in this case the cost is just about even with inflation.
I would also add that the old adage remains true; film is still the cheapest thing in photography."
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
Well, not entirely arbitrary: there was an evolution to it.
* Since Thanksgiving is always on Thursday, Americans began making Thursday through Sunday into a long weekend-cum-vacation. These days, it can extend from Wednesday through Monday.
* Since the next big holiday is Christmas, the perfect time to get shopping done ahead of time would be the Friday or weekend directly after Thanksgiving.
* As we all know from accounting, retailers whose finances may have been in the red often had their finances transition to the black on this Thanksgiving weekend.
* Anticipating large crowds and big sales, retailers began opening their stores at crazy early morning hours and being in such lines became a cultural tradition for some people. The cycle thus feeds on itself as a sort of shopping frenzy is anticipated by all.
So, Black Friday is not really arbitrary in origin.
traveler_101
American abroad
Righto - BUT they are using "Black Friday" (not translated) here in Norway now. Why? Power of American media and an easy marketing ploy for the retailers.
Anyone care to enlightenment me on what Thanksgiving in Canada is all about? I never knew they had a thanksgiving.
benlees
Well-known
Canadian thanksgiving is similar to the US version. A eurocentric celebration of the fall harvest, indicating a chance for winter survival in a harsh and unforgiving land. Occurs the 2nd Monday in October. Canada is cold, eh; so the harvest is earlier...
Freakscene
Obscure member
Lopping the head off a large bird to celebrate the subjugation of the natives. What else?
Marty
Bob Michaels
nobody special
I will comment as I live in rural Cuba part time. Our town is economically struggling but full of happy people. I have many family members who are ardent supporters of the Revolucíon. I can assure everyone the situation in different that you purport.
My Cuban wife is a published poet and writer. She says she is happy she lives in Cuba where her work is published because of it's intellectual merits whereas in the US it would only be published if it had commercial marketability. It does not bother her that our house does not have air conditioning nor hot water. It does not bother her that her washing machine is not automatic because of our limited water supply. She is content with washing a weeks worth of clothes in one batch of soapy water and rinses them in buckets to be hung on the clothes line. She is happy that everyone has a place to live, enough food to eat, medical care, and no cost university opportunities. She says she would not live in the US and have her children raised with capitalist values.
My mother in law at age 12 volunteered to spend a year traveling solo through the countryside setting up temporary schools to teach peasants to read and write. Half of Cuba was illiterate in the early 1960's until they achieved 99+% literacy in two years. It was considered such a normal contribution that no one ever mentioned it until I asked my wife about that project a year after we met. My MIL spent her life working for the Culture system finally leaving her equivalent $20 a month position for a equivalent $10 a month pension. She now lives OK and supports the government.
Thanks to my wife's connections, I was able to attend Fidel's 90th and final birthday celebration. The outpouring of support for him was incredible.
Every May 1st, I attend the annual Communist workers day march and fiesta. http://bobmichaels.org/Primero de Mayo 2016 Cueto.mp4 It puts any 4th of July event I have been to in the US to shame.
One can summarize Cuban culture as assigning the highest value to those things that money can't buy such as family, friends, social structure, and caring for every citizen. Quite a contrast to our focus on who has the most money or toys.
Understand that I have no desire to have the US be socialist or Communist but I certainly will not speak poorly of Cuba who is.
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
It is mostly on social media, TV, and other advertising that makes many people think Americans or westerners focus on material things above family or social structures, or compassion for others. In reality that is not the case.
My family escaped communist Hungary - actually sneaking past armed border guards with dogs - to come here. The Hungarian communists of that time will kill you if you think the wrong way. I worked with one Cuban refugee, so my strong bet is that Cuba is similar.
james.liam
Well-known
Bob, I am left speechless by your post.
Like 'Pál K', my parents separately fled Romania and Poland after having endured the 'benefits' of Communism--secret police, informers all about you, random arrests, bare rations, holding your tongue at all times. Close friends of mine from Cuba had family members 'disappeared', homes, businesses, land and personal possession seized by the Castro brothers and their henchmen. Their parents and grandparents were reduced to menial work after working hard at education and careers. Your experience in the countryside is probably representative of many rural communities that had virtually nothing before the revolution and received some minimal modicum of service afterward, but at the expense of the society as a whole. "Free" medical care at a hospital without medicines is about as meaningful as a banquet with empty plates.
As for your wife, art in Socialist-Marxist paradigms is always in the service of Mother Government and as such, much comply with their rigidly orthodox norms. If she lacks even this basic insight after a half century of stifling totalitarian statism, I am truly sorry for her.
Worst of all, you've drank the mojito-flavored Kool Aid too.
Like 'Pál K', my parents separately fled Romania and Poland after having endured the 'benefits' of Communism--secret police, informers all about you, random arrests, bare rations, holding your tongue at all times. Close friends of mine from Cuba had family members 'disappeared', homes, businesses, land and personal possession seized by the Castro brothers and their henchmen. Their parents and grandparents were reduced to menial work after working hard at education and careers. Your experience in the countryside is probably representative of many rural communities that had virtually nothing before the revolution and received some minimal modicum of service afterward, but at the expense of the society as a whole. "Free" medical care at a hospital without medicines is about as meaningful as a banquet with empty plates.
As for your wife, art in Socialist-Marxist paradigms is always in the service of Mother Government and as such, much comply with their rigidly orthodox norms. If she lacks even this basic insight after a half century of stifling totalitarian statism, I am truly sorry for her.
Worst of all, you've drank the mojito-flavored Kool Aid too.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Pál_K, james.liam: thanks for telling me what Cuban people think of their country and their life. One would have thought that living there part time for the last ten years I should have learned that.
BTW: have either of you ever been to Cuba?
BTW: have either of you ever been to Cuba?