Konica IIIa shutter fails often

bence8810

bence8810

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Hello, So I've been doing a lot of shooting with my Konica IIIa which is also my first rangefinder camera. I've noticed that on almost every roll I have some blanks so I thought I just left the cap on. I started writing down all my shots since and noting the cap being off, yet I still have many blank frames. Tried working a scenario out but can't. All I can say is that every shot I do at speeds 1/25 or below are fine, and from shots above that it's a hit and miss. While shooting I notice nothing except for when I develop... Anyone noticed something similar?

Thanks
Ben

These two rolls were shot this weekend. The one on the right is pretty bad...

image-542072561.jpg

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With leaf shutters you may hear what sounds like the shutter firing but in reality it is not.
I would have to say the shutter needs service since that is what appears to be happening.
I had a Kodak Retina IIIc that did what yours looks to be doing but once it was serviced it worked fine..
 
When I got my Konica III the shutter always clicked but the shutter either operated fine, didn't open, partially opened, or opened but didn't close completely. I knew the shutter had to be serviced. Turned out there were two broken blades and pins and Greg Weber rebuilt the shutter.
 
ruby.monkey said:
My IIIA will often fail to trip the shutter if I'm too gentle when pressing the shutter release.
Click to expand...

Will the film be allowed to advance though? In my case i feel I took the shot and the film is allowed to advance.

The problem is that I loaded a new roll before I came to the conclusion it wasn't the cap that was left on. I'll have to wait for that to be gone and then I'll try to fire the shutter with the open back into some light to see it opening etc. I'll work out a pattern. Meanwhile I've placed a bid on another camera just in case. I quite like these Konicas, but I am afraid servicing would be more expensive than having a new bought...

How much are you guys getting your service for?
In Japan I'd think it'd be pretty expensive.

Ben

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Yes, pressing the shutter button trips the shutter, but if the shutter isn't working for whatever reason, then it simply won't open. However, as far as the camera is concerned, the shutter button has been pressed, so it will allow you to advance the film.

This case is a bit unusual, because an unserviced shutter usually will work on fast speeds but not on slow speeds.

However, without actually seeing the camera, it's always difficult to make an accurate diagnosis.

I would suggest that you take it to a repair shop to get an assessment of the problem.
 
ZeissFan said:
Yes, pressing the shutter button trips the shutter, but if the shutter isn't working for whatever reason, then it simply won't open. However, as far as the camera is concerned, the shutter button has been pressed, so it will allow you to advance the film. This case is a bit unusual, because an unserviced shutter usually will work on fast speeds but not on slow speeds. However, without actually seeing the camera, it's always difficult to make an accurate diagnosis. I would suggest that you take it to a repair shop to get an assessment of the problem.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. I guess my next step will be to use up the remaining film and the turn towards the sun with the camera open and look for patterns.

I don't know how significant is the fact that it didn't yet fail under 1/25th, but there could be something.

The IIIa comes with some crazy EV coupling ring that allows (rather a restriction to me actually) the photographer to turn both the speed and aperture at the same time. When I turn the ring and it passes the 1/25th mark I always hear a strange mechanical sound. I do hear this with other cameras too though which have old shutters like my Minolta TLR's.

I'll post back later when I had time to test.
I'll also take the camera to some 2nd hand shop to have then check and perhaps offer a repair. I am not fluent in Japanese so things are rather complicated for me here :). But that's the beauty of it all!

Ben

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I thought I'd post back, since I've gotten in touch with Greg Veber and he says the CLA would run between $195-245 depending on the camera itself.

I am now thinking about going ahead with it but at the same time I don't know if I want to sacrifice such a large sum of money on a camera I got for $70...

He does sound very convincing and says that he'll clean the whole thing and lube everything, re-calibrated the RF along with the shutter etc... A pretty thorough job.
He'd even run a test roll over the cam to test shutter speed at the end. Hmmm.... What do you guys think? I'll be in Chicago from the 22nd to the 29th so I could save a one way international postage this way...

Ben
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bence8810 said:
Will the film be allowed to advance though? In my case i feel I took the shot and the film is allowed to advance.
Click to expand...
Yes it does. The only differences between this and a successful shot, are a quieter-than-usual click from the shutter, and an annoyingly blank frame on the film.

As for the cost of a service... in your place I'd go for it, if the camera was otherwise clean and with a good VF/RF image. These are high-quality cameras with (IMO) superb lenses, and should give you decades of service.
 
Never been this confused would be describing how I feel now perhaps best.

I've sent an email to JapanCameraHunter already and he kindly came back with a shop I could try. I sent an email to them in my broken Japanese, let's see what response I get back if any.
I'd also prefer it handled locally of course. The camera is great and I'd like to keep it.

The post about Greg's service being sloppy is something I read first time, I've always heard he was the "man" when it came to Konicas.

I'll sleep on it and decide once I hear back from the local shop.

Thanks all!
Ben

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As Weber will tell you, the IIIA can suffer fairly severe shutter damage to the speed selector plate if you repeatedly change the shutter speed when cocked. This can cause you to get just one speed for 25-50-100.

Watch the shutter operation against a light; the real issue might be that the shutter release and transport release are out of sync. There is a small door in the film takeup compartment that reveals a clamp on a post; the relative positions of those will determine what releases first (shutter or transport). If the transport releases first, you might get blank frames.

But your real issue, unfortunately, sounds like oil on the blades or a gummy slow escapement.

Dante
 
I never understood putting large amounts of money into inexpensive cameras. Just buy another one that has a return privilege and/or a guarantee. The last camera I had this happen on was a Canon FTb. The cheapest quote I could get for a CLA was $150, plus the two way shipping. You can buy these cameras all day long for $40. I ended up buying a T-90 from Keh w/ a warranty for $56 plus shipping, and it's a lot better camera than the FTb. Worked out very nicely, especially since I got $35 for the FTb by selling it w/ an accurate description of it's tendency to shutter cap at 1/1000. So in the end my T90 ended up costing just $21 plus shipping. Compare that to having an old FTb w/ $200 tied up in it. You can buy a lot of Tri-X w/ the savings.

Having a freshly CLA'd old camera.....it's still an old camera. It may last many years reliably, or another issue may pop up tomorrow. I agree w/ Dante, the aperture blades are probably gummy. Most leaf shutters are easy to clean yourself if you're handy.
 
I hear ya.. i do. But the Konica IIIa is different. If you don't believe me, look into the viewfinder of one and you'll understand.

Checking yahoo auctions Japan, the going price for a nice clean model is 300 USD. I got mine for 70, figures if I spend another 250 ill still be close to what a "good one" would cost, which of course still needs CLA.

All that's said, I don't have too much experience with too many cameras. But the VF on this camera is by far the best I've ever seen on a small format film camera. Yes, I did try Leicas...

Lens-wise, perhaps not as good as others and the shutter speed goes only until 500sec.

A hard decision to make overall. I'll be waiting for the Japanese store's quote before sending it off to the new world.

Ben
 
I think the Konica IIIa is definitely worth getting repaired, but Weber's price seems exorbitant. I'm sure he'd do a good job, but you might want to seek another estimate first. Try Frank Marshman. He works on just about every camera out there and does a good job with whatever folks throw at him.

EDIT: Oh, just noticed that what you mean by "local" is Japan.
 
Thanks, sent an email to Frank, not sure I have the right contacts though. It was camerawiz at msn

Waiting for his reply and at the same time trying to get to this shop I was told to get to by Bellamy at JCH.

Ben

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If one doesn't run the "as many cameras as it's possible" thing then buying one camera or system and CLAing it isn't exorbitant pricey neither stupid. Sure, doing paid CLA to every camera one finds in $5 bins isn't too reasonable.

When parts are broken (like blades) then Weber and likes often are most reasonable route. Buying spare camera isn't cheap unless in USA and then parts couldn't match even if cameras seem to be same (my case, when Greg had to reorder aperture from his pals in Japan).

With cameras I can repair myself I will not bother technicians, though.
 
I have repaired a few of these cameras, they are not very complex, and usually just require a cleaning of the shutter blades and slow speeds mechanism. The only common problem I come across is that the eccentric screw which locks the shutter nut is easily sheared off, allowing the shutter body to move enough to cause shutter misfires and malfunctions. I am in Tokyo, and can check out your camera if you like. I have a pretty good stock of spares for these old Konicas.
 
Understand also that old cameras don't really have a 60-year lifespan. They were manufactured when lubricants were crude, labor (assembly and repair) was cheap, and sometimes engineering was way ahead of material science (cf pot metal parts that crystallize and decay).

The only reason why many old consumer-oriented cameras of yore look good today was that they were seldom used and then put away for decades. They might seem to work at a basic level but then...

Even after a CLA, put them under heavy use, and you'll see a surprisingly short lifespan (or MTBF). I've had that experience much more with Retinas and other items with Compur 00s, but it's just as applicable to older Japanese cameras.

Dante
 
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