Paul T.
Veteran
All right folks. Well, my initial polite correspondence with the seller didn't go well. My similarly polite second request went ignored. I went to ebay to see about making a claim and there is simply no way to do so. There are pages with words telling me to do so, but no mechanism. No contact email, no contact phone number, no automatic way to make a claim (although there is a way to send an email to the seller, no longer useful).
What do I do? Any insights out there?
BTW, goamules really has it right. In the old days, I could inspect the thing I'm considering. I've never had a problem with that, even the few times I missed a defect--obviously my own fault, but very infrequent. Now with online transactions, its sooo difficult, but I realize that I've never had a bad transaction, not even a mediocre transaction, with RFF classifieds. And some of you know you've sold me a few thingsI trusted the ebay seller to have made an honest description and it wasn't. Here at RFF, I've only found honest, comprehensive descriptions. I will have to stick with dealing with honest camera-types from now on. Anyone want to buy a 90/2.8....cheap?
Firstly, don't despair.
There is a procedure to go through, it's pretty simple, happens all the time. In general with eBay the company sides with the buyer and the onus is on the buyer to return the money. The terms "as is" etc have absolutely no relevance here. You bought a lens that had obvious defects, not shown in the listing, which is therefore "significantly not as described."
Got to this link:
http://resolutioncenter.ebay.com
and follow the procedure through. Here you simply click on "I received an item that does not match the seller's description."
The seller's account will be instantly frozen, he won't be able to transfer any Paypal funds at all into his account. That will make him more amenable.
Do this now, good luck, and please let us know how you get on.
I sold a coffee machine, for a friend, and we failed to include one part; the buyer, an eBay newbie who was actually very nice, clicked on the not as described link and all my money was suddenly inaccessible, I can testify! Not just from that machine.
We were fine of course as we sent on the missing item, but your seller will almost certainly be forced to deal with this reasonably. Keep all your communications with eBay simple, point out the lens is useless and the photos did not show the faults; if things get heavy you might need an expert to assess the item, but I've never known a situation come to this.
Eric T
Well-known
I concur with the comment above. I have mostly bought and sold occasionally on eBay almost since the inception of eBay and never had a problem. I follow a few basic rules:
1. I only buy items sold from my home country (fortunately I live in a big country) and neighboring Canada. I just assume it is far harder to solve a problem from a seller abroad.
2. For large ticket items (use your own definition here), I only buy from a seller with considerable positive feedback. I want to see lots of previous transactions and as close to 100% feedback as possible.
3. Stay away from great prices with little feedback.
4. I need a very good description of the item with photos.
5. I stay away from photographic gear with lousy photos.
All of these things are common sense. I may be forgetting a few things but those are the basics.
Eric T
Well-known
One more thing - I use paypal exclusively for payments in either direction.
willie_901
Veteran
Don't procrastinate. In my experience the longer a buyer waits to file a claim, the less likely it is the issue will be resolved in their favor.
Document all the email/messages exchanged with the seller.
Document all the email/messages exchanged with the seller.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I have had mostly good luck on ebay, but when I didn't, filing a claim caused the seller (a camera store in Indiana) to become instantly cooperative. You can file your claim, and have it be all resolved, with less typing and effort than you have already put into this thread.
gwgchase
Newbie
I just received the unhappy news from paypal that my 'Not as described' claim was denied…
I bought a 'Mint' condition lens - no returns. 24mm Elmarit-m for $2k.
Center is sharp, but can't seem to get anything sharp around the edges. Finally get around to doing a test (of a stone wall). Edges are quite awful at any aperture. Oh, well. Figured I would send it in for an adjustment.
Repair service (well known here) calls me to tell me that they won't work on the lens because rear retaining ring clearly has been 'tampered' with. Needs to go to Leica. I check with DAG and he says on this lens, can't reassemble without a collimator that only Leica Germany has. Result will be sharp center, bad edges just as I am seeing. Very very expensive repair at Leica. Unfortunately, by the time I get this news it's 31 days..
I try to resolve with buyer. Lots of excuses and claims it works properly and it's just my camera. Works fine on his camera (a cropped sensor, no less).
So I call foul. Supply all the written documentation, and test pictures. But apparently paypal does not see any reason that mint lenses should actually produce sharp images.
Well. Lessons learned.
1) Paypal in fact won't necessarily put in enough effort to determine who is at fault. And really, who could ever prove either way that the lens didn't work properly when I got it.
So it's a turkey shoot who will get the nod.
2) Just take 'No returns' as a red flag. I figured it was to reduce a seller's nuisance with buyers remorse. But no, in trying to resolve the issue, I was fair. I offered to send it to Leica, and if it was within spec I would pay everything. If it was internally damaged, then he would pay. All I got was excuses.
So I learned a very expensive lesson - how expensive, I suppose I will find out soon.
I bought a 'Mint' condition lens - no returns. 24mm Elmarit-m for $2k.
Center is sharp, but can't seem to get anything sharp around the edges. Finally get around to doing a test (of a stone wall). Edges are quite awful at any aperture. Oh, well. Figured I would send it in for an adjustment.
Repair service (well known here) calls me to tell me that they won't work on the lens because rear retaining ring clearly has been 'tampered' with. Needs to go to Leica. I check with DAG and he says on this lens, can't reassemble without a collimator that only Leica Germany has. Result will be sharp center, bad edges just as I am seeing. Very very expensive repair at Leica. Unfortunately, by the time I get this news it's 31 days..
I try to resolve with buyer. Lots of excuses and claims it works properly and it's just my camera. Works fine on his camera (a cropped sensor, no less).
So I call foul. Supply all the written documentation, and test pictures. But apparently paypal does not see any reason that mint lenses should actually produce sharp images.
Well. Lessons learned.
1) Paypal in fact won't necessarily put in enough effort to determine who is at fault. And really, who could ever prove either way that the lens didn't work properly when I got it.
So it's a turkey shoot who will get the nod.
2) Just take 'No returns' as a red flag. I figured it was to reduce a seller's nuisance with buyers remorse. But no, in trying to resolve the issue, I was fair. I offered to send it to Leica, and if it was within spec I would pay everything. If it was internally damaged, then he would pay. All I got was excuses.
So I learned a very expensive lesson - how expensive, I suppose I will find out soon.
Paul T.
Veteran
Sounds like quite a different situation to the OP, grgchase. How long did you leave it before contacting PayPal?
Chances are always much better if you contact within a week or two, for obvious reasons.
Chances are always much better if you contact within a week or two, for obvious reasons.
Michael Markey
Veteran
I must admit that I`ve never used EBay and listening to some of the stories which appear here from time to time has done nothing to change my mind.
Whether the various resolution procedures are robust or not ,there seems to be no compelling reason to use what has already been described as a garage sale.
Whether the various resolution procedures are robust or not ,there seems to be no compelling reason to use what has already been described as a garage sale.
Paul T.
Veteran
But that is life, no?
Via eBay, I've cleared my attic of all that stuff I bought cheap over the years and never used - old jeans, train sets, Elvis 78s, bakelite radios, catalin napkins rings. I'm freelance with a family, and all my discretionary spending comes from eBay income. That's why I have a Fuji X100, Konica Hexar, CL and a full set of lenses, and a nice Heuer Carrera, and some good British shoes. I've bought many items on eBay, and can only think of one item where it was dodgy and I didn't get a refund (Apple power supply that failed after four months).
eBay is like everywhere else in the world, where it's caveat Emptor - there's no reason at all the system is bad, it simply requires users to take due diligence, same as in so many other areas of life.
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
@gwgchase, that's really different, seeking a return after a long delay (>31 days). There's a lesson here, test or inspect your item promptly.
For the OP, we've had lots of chatter here about how eBay now favors the buyer. That's helped me a couple of times. (Overall, my eBay and RFF experiences have been overwhelmingly positive.) I believe it will get you a return if you follow the process.
For the OP, we've had lots of chatter here about how eBay now favors the buyer. That's helped me a couple of times. (Overall, my eBay and RFF experiences have been overwhelmingly positive.) I believe it will get you a return if you follow the process.
Michael Markey
Veteran
True ...
I have loads of stuff which I need to sell books , quality Hi Fi .
However the stories which appear regularly on this forum have served to dissuade me from using eBay.
Maybe I should reconsider.
gwgchase
Newbie
Mea culpa.
I did wait too long. I had checked the lens and found the center sharp the day I received it. It was supposed to be a mint lens, so didn't think to check it further. Not being familiar with what the corners in a 24 mm lens should look like critically wide open or stopped down did not help. Nor the fact that I was distracted by the fantastically sharp center of the image.
WIth work obligations it was a good two and a half weeks before I finally had the time to take the lens out of the bag and take enough shots to believe there was a problem.
Another 10 days to ship the lens and get an answer back. I was not aggressive because at the time I foolishly assumed that as with nearly every other lens I have bought it was just a CLA away from working optimally.
Returning the lens never even occurred to me until I got the word saying the lens had been tampered with. Far far from mint.
So, I will repeat ColSebastianMoran's advice, for my and other's benefit. Assume the worst, check and test carefully and thoroughly as soon as you get the item.
I did wait too long. I had checked the lens and found the center sharp the day I received it. It was supposed to be a mint lens, so didn't think to check it further. Not being familiar with what the corners in a 24 mm lens should look like critically wide open or stopped down did not help. Nor the fact that I was distracted by the fantastically sharp center of the image.
WIth work obligations it was a good two and a half weeks before I finally had the time to take the lens out of the bag and take enough shots to believe there was a problem.
Another 10 days to ship the lens and get an answer back. I was not aggressive because at the time I foolishly assumed that as with nearly every other lens I have bought it was just a CLA away from working optimally.
Returning the lens never even occurred to me until I got the word saying the lens had been tampered with. Far far from mint.
So, I will repeat ColSebastianMoran's advice, for my and other's benefit. Assume the worst, check and test carefully and thoroughly as soon as you get the item.
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
Well Folks,
I have gone to the resoultion center page for ebay (as suggested here), selected my item, said it was not as described, and I keep getting routed to the same self help questions and no contact information/link. No matter what route I try or even if I simple try outrageous links that have no bearing on my situation,,,,I get back to the same self help questions and no way to contact ebay whatsoever. And what really frustrates me is they say, "contact us if you don't have resolution" Well, I'm trying. Ebay is really losing me fast!
Is there a secret sequence? I can' find any way to get hold of ebay via any form of communication at all. I don't find much that looks useful from a google search (other than how hard it is to contact ebay). How can they "step in and help" if I can't contact them? My frustration must be showing by now.
I have gone to the resoultion center page for ebay (as suggested here), selected my item, said it was not as described, and I keep getting routed to the same self help questions and no contact information/link. No matter what route I try or even if I simple try outrageous links that have no bearing on my situation,,,,I get back to the same self help questions and no way to contact ebay whatsoever. And what really frustrates me is they say, "contact us if you don't have resolution" Well, I'm trying. Ebay is really losing me fast!
Is there a secret sequence? I can' find any way to get hold of ebay via any form of communication at all. I don't find much that looks useful from a google search (other than how hard it is to contact ebay). How can they "step in and help" if I can't contact them? My frustration must be showing by now.
Highway 61
Revisited
This must be done at PayPal not eBay. It's simple and it works.
ProviaFan
Member
Ebay makes you wait a certain number of days before you can escalate the case for their resolution. Give it a few more days and you should be able to escalate it.