Learning a Foriegn (to me) language

[rover]

I had dinner this week with a couple of my high school buddies, we caught up on a lot of stuff. One of my friends, Mike, has immersed himself in learning Italian (well, he is trying). Why would a 40 yo guy try to learn a foreign language, um, he is divorced, dating a woman from Italy who doesn't speak English, so..... Being Italian American of course he does have a desire to learn the language too.

Which is where I come in (alas without the Italian cutie as a carrot, so to speak). I have been thinking over the past number of months that I would like to learn another language, Italian specifically, but with the reservation that I unsuccessfully studied Spanish in school (after "?Hola Felipe, como esta usted?" I was lost. And look, my key board can't do upside down ? marks).

So why bring this up here, well, we are all friends, and you all get to share in my pointless ramblings because you were all fortunate enough to have learned English along with your native languages. And so many of you have diverse backgrounds, Francisco is a language professor no?

So, if you were starting today, how would you go about it? I have been looking into a computer based programs like the Rosetta Stone system.

http://www.rosettastone.com/en/?a=b

I think something like this will give me more material readily at hand than taking a class at a community college. I won't be exposed to any language I choose to take up very much at all in the real world (though Mike's friend is a very good cook he says so I may worm an invite or two for dinner).

Well, this is something that has been on my mind. I figure to throw it out in hopes of gaining some advise.

Thanks.

 

[Xmas]

Rover

Find an Italien female.

Noel

 

[rover]

That would require the approval of the wife.....

 

[John Camp]

Put the words "language learning difficulty" into Google (just the three words, without the quote marks) and then read across some of the websites. What you are thinking about is probably a lot more difficult than you realize, even if you understand that it will be hard...in fact, in your situation it might be almost impossible to really learn to speak a foreign language; although you could pick up phrase-book stuff.

Americans (I assume from details in your post that you're an American) are often faulted for not doing well in foreign languages, as if it were out of arrogance or something. But the fact is, Europeans are just much more closely clustered and have much better access to countries where different languages are spoken fulltime. France and Spain are both smaller in land area than Texas, and Germany is quite a bit smaller than California. London to Paris is almost the same distance as New York to Boston. An American who doesn't live near the Mexican border can easily be more than a thousand miles from the nearest non-English-speaking nation (or thousands of miles, in the case of Hawaii.) And it's very difficult to become good in a language if you don't spend quite a bit of time among native speakers...

JC

 

[nico]

Ciao Rover,
just a question, out of curiosity, why do you want to learn italian?
Whatever the answer will be, right now, I can only suggest, for my personal experience studying english, to find an italian teacher for private lessons. It will cost you some more than a class but you will get better results in the same time. Imho, the better way to learn a foreing languege is to speak it with a mother tongue teacher or friend, I do not believe language computer programs can really help without some real conversation.
Btw, italian is very similar to spanish, but italian just sound s a little more better 😉 ... just kidding ... :angel:
In the end trying to learn a foreing language is also a good way to understand a different culture and a good way to keep the mind open.
So, good luck with your choice and lessons whatever the language you'll choose to learn.
Ciao
Nico

 

[Pherdinand]

Rover
Asz second option to an italian girl, find a good italian language course. NOT one for retired people willing to go to ROme for holiday, but preferably one at universities or such.
There's no better way to start.
And remember, practice practice as much as you can. There's just nothing that can be better than practice. Listen to italian songs. Watch italian movies w english subtitles. Or vice versa😀 And find some native italian patient enough to correct you when you speak italian to him/her.

And: don't get depressed if it goes slow. Do not give it up.
I am "only"30, but I noticed already that I learn new words much much more difficult, than in highschool. I had french in highschool, it went really fine (but never practiced so i guess i forgot most of it). Now i followed a spanish basic course, 2x2 hours a week, for 3 months. Man what a difference. I really had to try hard to remember what I learned three days before.

PS: latin based languages are not that difficult, you would have a much harder time with german, slavic, or more exotic eastern languages. Dutch, e.g., is a PITA! 😀

 

[kshapero]

Put the words "language learning difficulty" into Google (just the three words, without the quote marks) and then read across some of the websites. What you are thinking about is probably a lot more difficult than you realize, even if you understand that it will be hard...in fact, in your situation it might be almost impossible to really learn to speak a foreign language; although you could pick up phrase-book stuff.

Americans (I assume from details in your post that you're an American) are often faulted for not doing well in foreign languages, as if it were out of arrogance or something. But the fact is, Europeans are just much more closely clustered and have much better access to countries where different languages are spoken fulltime. France and Spain are both smaller in land area than Texas, and Germany is quite a bit smaller than California. London to Paris is almost the same distance as New York to Boston. An American who doesn't live near the Mexican border can easily be more than a thousand miles from the nearest non-English-speaking nation (or thousands of miles, in the case of Hawaii.) And it's very difficult to become good in a language if you don't spend quite a bit of time among native speakers...

JC

you mean to say that I am not arrogant!! Oh the horror. Actually your post makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[jonasv]

Americans (I assume from details in your post that you're an American) are often faulted for not doing well in foreign languages, as if it were out of arrogance or something. But the fact is, Europeans are just much more closely clustered and have much better access to countries where different languages are spoken fulltime. France and Spain are both smaller in land area than Texas, and Germany is quite a bit smaller than California. London to Paris is almost the same distance as New York to Boston. An American who doesn't live near the Mexican border can easily be more than a thousand miles from the nearest non-English-speaking nation (or thousands of miles, in the case of Hawaii.) And it's very difficult to become good in a language if you don't spend quite a bit of time among native speakers...

JC

Uhm, that's a bit simplistic. I learned to speak English, French and German before I spent time with native speakers... And I most certainly didn't learn Latin and ancient Greek by hanging out with Romans and ancient Greeks!

Learning a language is possible in many ways. Sure, immersing yourself is the fastest way, especially if you have no option: I spent two weeks in Romania this summer in a place where almost nobody spoke anything but Romanian; the second week I could perfectly understand everything said and make myself clear in a coherent (albeit not grammatically correct) way. But it's certainly not impossible or even very difficult to learn a language from books, audio tapes, or conversation with other 'students' (at your level, not native speakers).

 

[jonasv]

Oh, by the way; an Italian teacher would be nice but probably expensive; I'm sure you can find someone (if you live in a bigger city?) who comes from Italy and wants to learn or perfect his/her English. That's the easiest and cheapest way to do it as it'll help you both!

Learning a language is an ideal way to meet people, explore some culture, etc. Are you sure you want to do it sitting in front of a computer...?

 

[Xmas]

First of all married people are the worst in my experience... but to try and be more helpful... RAI operates on HF and does English, Italien, programmes, google

RAI + HF

e.g. http://www.international.rai.it/

If your only news input in the day is RAI you will have to try and follow the Italien from native speakers slow but through the HF artifice, you need HF radio, antenna and audio recorder.

However if you are older than six it will be hard, but if you try hard and go to Italy, they will double take - when they detect you are trying to speak their language. They are a friendly people.

Noel

 

[rover]

I am sure I can translate this with Google,

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meliso

but it is a cultural issue.

What is this all about?

http://www.meliso.com.ar/

And is this home?

http://www.prolocoleuca.it/punta_meliso.htm

It is something to keep me busy I guess. Another hobby, I excel at cooking, and with photography....well every once in a while even a blind squirrel finds a nut. I like the idea of exploring the Italian culture as I am Italian American. I don't have ideas, at this time of becoming a fluent speaker of Italian, but I have to start somewhere.

Thank you for your answers.

 

[rover]

Thanks for the link Noel, that is a great idea.

 

[POSTI-Tuomo]

Well, I learned English as a kid playing games like Monkey Island and the Leisure Suit Larry series (a bit dirty of a game for a kid, but hey, it was a great way to exercise my language skills).... Dunno if it would work today but it did way back then.🙄

If one can derive something of a rule out of that, it would be: Immerse yourself in the language daily, not just on classes and such. Start with simple phrases and don't worry about the grammar, just try to make yourself understood (LSL text parser was a great way to do this).

Try to listen to radio shows in the language you wish to learn and do not forget the TV. Try to figure out how the grammar works, the relations between verbs, subjects and objects. By this point you will need to attend some language classes etc...

Happy learning!

 

[rover]

playing games like Monkey Island and the Leisure Suit Larry

Hey, the wife will approve of Leisure Suit Larry before she will invite a "Maria" over for the weekend. 😉

 

[Ossifan]

I've had to lear two languages in the last 6 years for my job (yeah, I know, rough life getting paid a salary to learn a language). My recommendation would be to find a class at a nearby institute or school (Cervantes Institute for Spanish, Goethe Institute for German, local community college, etc.) as it will help to have some structure and others to work with. Otherwise, I think any of the programs (Rosetta Stone, etc.) are good, what will matter more is doing some work every day for a period of time.

Cheers,
Alex

 

[Carlos Cruz]

Maybe we should switch rff from english to italiano, starting from next week😀

 

[dagabel]

I'd suggest the Pimsleur language tapes, just for conversation and to get started. A couple of years ago I decided to learn Spanish, in my car during the daily commute. Each set contains 90 30-minute lessons which you can repeat until you're ready to move on. It took me about a year and a half, and I feel that it's gotten me to an advanced beginner level; I would feel quite comfortable travelling to a Spanish-speaking country.

Dr. Paul Pimsleur was a linguist who was fluent in some ridiculous number of languages, and he tried to develop his system using the same techniques that we use to learn as children. Specifically, a word or phrase is repeated with an increasing time interval between repetitions. He felt that once you could remember the word/phrase after a 20- to 30-minute interval, you had it. This system definitely works for me; the language knowledge just seems to pretty much effortlessly sneak up on me. The method is conversational - no grammer drills or verb conjugations, etc.

Now I'm learning French in the same way. Best of all, these tapes/CDs are probably available at your local library or through inter-library loan. Otherwise they're very expensive - probably about the same as a user M6.

Good luck!
Duane

 

[Kin Lau]

I'll second Pimsleur as well. The basic series is cheap and very easy to get going.

Background: I've taught Mandarin Chinese (volunteer basis) to Canadians here in Toronto.

 

[rover]

Does the Pimsleur lessons provide the Italian (in my case) and English translation? I bought a series today which will require I sit and read along with the the tape to see the translation. I think what I bought will be a fine start, but not for when I am driving.

 

[Pablito]

<--- looking to trade lessons in Spanish or English for lessons in Cambodian. For real. Located in central Connecticut..... Oh, and btw, the up side down question mark is there on your kbd along with the exclamation point. ¿¿¿¿¿¿ (option/question mark, at least on the mac)