fstops
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If only Leica ambassadors also had some basic understanding of logic...
The only outdated Toyota or whatever the heck is Leica ME here, not Sony RX1 or any other camera announced in the past two years.
santela
Established
Okay, Sony's got my money.
bensyverson
Well-known
Hey, I'm not complaining. I shoot with the M system, but I'm nowhere close to being in the market for such a camera, so I'm not in any position to complain. I'm just pointing out that the climate is much different in 2012 than 2009. There are more options out there, many that beat Leica at the stealth and low light game--are there that many more luxury buyers who insist on the Leica brand? I guess time will tell.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
bensyverson
Well-known
Think about how quickly a Leica game controller would brassHow about if Leica can come up with a decent game console ... would that sway you?
anselwannab
Well-known
That's the price I thought would be for the ME, a true step wise change in price and something to keep Sony or Fuji from coming into the FF M market. Oh, well.
Yep, I think the market is going to fix this. Sony is telegraphing a FF camera and if Fuji does it it will make Leica's offering look like stone age flint tools. I know tech isn't everyones cup of tea, but how much would Fuji charge for a FF pro?
We'll have to see the final performance, but it seems like it will be an M class lens wtih a free FF sensor. And sensor and lens can be optimized....
For an M body and a complement of lenes, it gets lost in the rounding.
Leica should have named it the MEh as in the sighing the sound you make when you really don't care about something.
My only thought is that they are going to dial down the MEh price rapidly so that it gets to below $4500 by the time the M comes out.
I'd rather buy a used M9 than the MEh.
I really thought I was going to buy one of the MEh's. The price breaks on the M9 to me were signalling that pricing was going to be lower than it was. Leica should have kept the M9 at its current price till the M came out. I really don't see a reason to discount it till then. Bring out the MEh at $2000 ($1500+$500) difference, and the MEh looks reasonable. At a $500 delta it just seems odd.
At least the M wasn't $10k like some were guesstimating.
At least they left room for a FF Fuji or Sony.--- And that is what I wonder. Leica was the last ones to show their 'hole cards'. I wonder if Leica had two plans. If the FF Fuji or Sony RX1 was a interchangeable mount, the MEh would have been priced lower. Leica let everyone else show their cards, and then decided they didn't need to price the MEh competitively to meet theses models- so they priced it at $5500. If Sony or Fuji had launched, they would have priced the MEh at $4000. That makes sense from a product positioning sense.
Leica, like most competitors, isn't going to change their odd behavior until they are faced with a true threat. By pricing the MEh where they did they are probably enticing someone into their market.
froyd
Veteran
OK, I can follow where your are going, but who's building this fabled digital RF with a sensor better than the m9? Sure, the Epson is an awsome camera but...
brokencivilian
Established
What do I know, though... my only Leica is an M3 with v1 Summilux
I still to what I have, 2 m6s, 50 summicron, 35 voigt and a v700
froyd
Veteran
fstop, you are lowering the level of the conversation. You have interesting points to make (e.g. post #95), but in the few weeks since you have been on this forum you have done little to foster camaraderie and much to seed animosity.
Please keep contributing to the conversation, rather than detracting from it.
I, for one, appreciate what leicashot has to say about the M philosophy. Other than a slightly improved CCD sensor how can a digital Leica M be improved over the already fabulous M9? Want hybrid VF? There's a fantastic Fuji, want superb IQ in a small package w/ access to legacy lenses? Pick a Sony. Want a 1:1 finder and a 1.5 crop? Pick an Epson.
...but if you want a FF RF, Leica is the only one choice, so it's easy for them to be a big fish in a small pond. When Leica swims in the bigger ponds (e.g. pocket digicams) we've all seen the sad results.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
They're all rip offs. All new digital cameras are overpriced. Just my opinion.
brokencivilian
Established
gavinlg
Veteran
I for one am really glad leica kept a basic/stripped down M-E. I'm not sure if I like the new 'M' at all. For me, if I want an electronic VF and all that crap I'll buy an a99 for 1/4 of the price and use it with zeiss lenses.
uhoh7
Veteran
Well the M looks fantastic to me-- though a bit big by the new standards. As to the M-E, hard to evaluate---rather than going over the features, most folks seem to prefer dismissing it out of hand, with deep foreboding tones
denizg7
Well-known
fuji can if they wanna piss on leica
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Agreed, uhoh7.
I've never liked the size of the M8 or M9 bodies. The M3-MP series bodies fit my hand perfectly and the digital bodies are comparatively bloated. The new M looks impressive but if I could have wished for something it would have been for a return to the exact M3 dimensions. Not that it matters -- I'm not the target market for this thing anyway. But Sony does look ready to launch a FF CLE that could really eat Leica's lunch.
I've never liked the size of the M8 or M9 bodies. The M3-MP series bodies fit my hand perfectly and the digital bodies are comparatively bloated. The new M looks impressive but if I could have wished for something it would have been for a return to the exact M3 dimensions. Not that it matters -- I'm not the target market for this thing anyway. But Sony does look ready to launch a FF CLE that could really eat Leica's lunch.
Spicy
Well-known
You should examine your own answer... Make the M smaller (the inescapable fate of aging has come to Leica) -- the M has become fat and content to rest on its laurels. Introduce a hybrid VF, or variable magnification VF. If you want to leverage your film reputation, stick to your guns -- stop introducing features like video that nobody would have cared about. Do you think HCB ever wished he could take 8mm home movies? Also, stop touting your worthiness as a "lifetime investment," because with digital, it is painfully obvious that that is no longer the case. If you insist, implement the concept of body-for-life, innards-as-updates. Charge 2k for a magnificent body, and 2-3k for periodic updates of the sensor/battery components.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Perhaps not. But Robert Frank certainly did, and I'll choose Frank over C-B any and every day of the week.
hteasley
Pupil
I don't see how they under-delivered. They brought out a cheaper M9, and delivered the M, which adds most everything folks have been saying they should add for the next digital M. It's still a mostly uncluttered rangefinder, but it can be accessorized to essentially be a DSLR if you want, and use R glass with it. They beefed up the S system in a huge way. They brought out the next gen of their compact and super-zoom. And then a bunch of meaningless fluff like custom X cameras and such. It was kind of a big day, and they delivered. Given their relatively modest size as a company, compared to the big Japanese companies, it is sort of surprising at how much they brought out.
Meanwhile, Sony and Fuji are delivering interesting cameras, sure. But Leica is delivering excellent product, it seems to me. I don't particularly lust for an M, but there's no denying that they listened to what folks wanted the M10 to be, and lo, here it is.
anselwannab
Well-known
On the video, will anyone drop their Canon or Nikon DSLRs to shoot M glass on the new M??? I'm not sure if the feature was so much aimed at current M users, but perhaps a bid to try to expand the customer base by leveraging the mystique around Leica glass? Or is it just a 'mother' attribute from having a CMOS sensor that would be silly to ignore?
semordnilap
Well-known
I can't be bothered to read the whole thread, so I'll just state my opinion(s)...
M-E is too expensive, frankly. I think it should be at last $2k different from the M.
And the M, thicker? M8/9/E is as thick as they should get, really.
I find myself still wishing for an M8.3: 1.3x sensor, slightly slimmer body, faster electronics, priced in between x2 and ME, maybe $3500 or $4000 max. I honestly think that would sell better than a $5400 ME... I know they'll never do it, sadly, but I think it would be a better way to get people into RF photography.
M-E is too expensive, frankly. I think it should be at last $2k different from the M.
And the M, thicker?
M8/9/E is as thick as they should get, really. I find myself still wishing for an M8.3: 1.3x sensor, slightly slimmer body, faster electronics, priced in between x2 and ME, maybe $3500 or $4000 max. I honestly think that would sell better than a $5400 ME... I know they'll never do it, sadly, but I think it would be a better way to get people into RF photography.