hteasley
Pupil
I think it would have been silly to not have something. They delivered video capability that is a couple years out of date at least, so I read that as, "We don't really think this is the heart of the camera, but you'd eviscerate us in reviews if we didn't deliver something". So you get 25fps HD video when other cameras are delivering 60fps or better.
semordnilap
Well-known
Anyway, reading the M spec sheet, it does have some nice updates, specifically more metering options & a better battery.
semordnilap
Well-known
I don't expect it'll be very high bit rate either.
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
To be fair, it's hard to pump 60fps out of a full frame sensor, and it's even harder when you're working with a very small camera and a small battery (in relation to the Nikons and Canons and Sonys). The $7000 is more about being made in Germany than the electronics. But anyway...
OK, I think the biggest problem I have with the ME is the color. Which is weird because I usually don't care about stuff like that. But I don't understand why Leica would bother to produce kind of a "classic" alternative to this new M, and then make it in a pretty ugly and not-at-all-classic color. If I were Leica, I would have made the ME as small as possible (more to the size of a film M than the M8 and M9), with a manual shutter advance, perhaps no screen, just silver finish or maybe black and silver, and sold it for $4000.
Nick
Established
I've been holding off a digital RF till Photokina. Now my decision will be to find a used or grey-market M9-P instead of this M-E crap, then upgrade to an "M" in 12 months if need be.
Of course, still waiting to see if there's any awesomesauce from Fuji yet...
Of course, still waiting to see if there's any awesomesauce from Fuji yet...
aizan
Veteran
i like that the M-E doesn't have a USB port and frameline selector, because they're superfluous and detract from the design.
put the m9-p's silver chrome top and bottom plates on the thing and you've got one hell of a nice looking camera. i would buy that digital m.
put the m9-p's silver chrome top and bottom plates on the thing and you've got one hell of a nice looking camera. i would buy that digital m.
teleparallel
Established
One thing that's pretty nice(and not commented) is that the M can become a complete camera. No need for external viewfinders for ultra wide and the possibility of close up photos, without, losing the ergonomics and experience of a coupled rangefinder. It lacks aperture indexing, of any kind, though, so metering is made at shooting aperture, bad for manual focusing through the lens.
Video is less likely to be used, given that other brands offer better alternatives(including true video cameras), without the big money. Also for video, the camera is just the begging of the investment.
The Leica ME I think is good for those who won't use Leica glass. You get 2 or 3 voigtlander lenses for $1500. The M9-P is the M9 without the red dot, so Leica already relaunched it's products once. Pointless IMHO, but many people even "upgraded" the camera, so I expect anything, from no sales to record ones.
I think I'll try to get a Fuji in the future. It's ergonomics is what I really want, big speed dial, and aperture on the lens, no need to look at the screen to set the desired config. I'll only miss the nice and easy manual focusing.
Full Frame to me is overrated. There's no true diference for normal use. Super high ISO speeds are only for specific very specific applications.
To me Voigtlander or Zeiss could launch coupled rangefinder with a APS-C sized sensor, and digital dedicated lenses for 28mm(equivalent) and bellow. That way problems related to wide angle in digital sensor can be circumvented with specific lens design, such a small retro focus. This way, we'd get everything, at affordable price, thinner body, with all the possibilities of this new "M", without any of the problems related to the big sensor.
Video is less likely to be used, given that other brands offer better alternatives(including true video cameras), without the big money. Also for video, the camera is just the begging of the investment.
The Leica ME I think is good for those who won't use Leica glass. You get 2 or 3 voigtlander lenses for $1500. The M9-P is the M9 without the red dot, so Leica already relaunched it's products once. Pointless IMHO, but many people even "upgraded" the camera, so I expect anything, from no sales to record ones.
I think I'll try to get a Fuji in the future. It's ergonomics is what I really want, big speed dial, and aperture on the lens, no need to look at the screen to set the desired config. I'll only miss the nice and easy manual focusing.
Full Frame to me is overrated. There's no true diference for normal use. Super high ISO speeds are only for specific very specific applications.
To me Voigtlander or Zeiss could launch coupled rangefinder with a APS-C sized sensor, and digital dedicated lenses for 28mm(equivalent) and bellow. That way problems related to wide angle in digital sensor can be circumvented with specific lens design, such a small retro focus. This way, we'd get everything, at affordable price, thinner body, with all the possibilities of this new "M", without any of the problems related to the big sensor.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I saw this the minute it was announced - and then logged off. The response on RFF has been much better than I thought it (based on M9 and M8 release days).
In recap: the M( ) is actually an upgrade from the M9 (w/sensor change), and the M-E is the M9 but uglier and cheaper.
They did put the video feature in there. I guess my joke about integrating Facebook Chat and MP3 player will become a "prediction" in about three years...
In recap: the M( ) is actually an upgrade from the M9 (w/sensor change), and the M-E is the M9 but uglier and cheaper.
They did put the video feature in there. I guess my joke about integrating Facebook Chat and MP3 player will become a "prediction" in about three years...
Gid
Well-known
Given the expected response to any new Leica announcement, I think they have steered the optimum path for them. They've created a cheaper (relative term) FF M that is different enough from the M9P not to p*** off the existing M9P owner (who will also retain their one upmanship) and plays to the Leica purist. They've also created a more modern M that retains enough of the existing philosophy to salve the purists and those requiring a more modern set of features with a price not too far north of the M9P or MM. Bingo!
Leica were never going to produce anything selling cheap, were they?
Leica were never going to produce anything selling cheap, were they?
FrozenInTime
Well-known
pieter
Established
I like the Leica M-E, and will consider buying it. As such I think for me Leica made a logical move. From this release I am reading that Leica is somehow pointing out that really an M9 is all you need. It has plenty of MP, does plenty of justice to your M lenses and is FF. Also I like the output of the CCD sensor. It is different enough in it's output to be a Leica.
Only thing I would enjoy is higher ISO.
I think Leica is pointing out that we've almost hit the top of the digital line; the digital M9/M-E is finished, it does not need yearly updates. Quite a liberating thought, and apart from the higher ISO which I would like I think I would agree with them.
For me I will wait and see which sensor I like better. The CMOS of the M will have better ISO, but unless it has as much character and flair as the CCD of the M-E, I would still pick the M-E.
Oh and I like the gray color.
Only thing I would enjoy is higher ISO.
I think Leica is pointing out that we've almost hit the top of the digital line; the digital M9/M-E is finished, it does not need yearly updates. Quite a liberating thought, and apart from the higher ISO which I would like I think I would agree with them.
For me I will wait and see which sensor I like better. The CMOS of the M will have better ISO, but unless it has as much character and flair as the CCD of the M-E, I would still pick the M-E.
Oh and I like the gray color.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Leica were never going to produce anything selling cheap, were they?
Right. Indeed, the whole markting, with its strong appeal to a desire for "retained value" and "good investment" would collapse if they ever undercut their past models with something superior, yet cheaper. Of course they have the issue that they are perpetually shrinking their own market with that strategy, as more and more potential buyers cannot afford them any more - but they might be able to do so at a profit (and that phenomenon alone is nice to have in our MBA governed growth oriented world).
santela
Established
How about if Leica can come up with a decent game console ... would that sway you?
I'll wait around for the sexy Hermes edition so I can impress all the ladies!
froyd
Veteran
I fully agree. If I could afford it, I would buy an M9 today. I do not expect to want more from a camera than the M9 offers (other than more assurance of its longevity). Even the ISO does not trouble me. I've usually shoot iso400 film, which on rare occasions I rate at 800 letting the chips fall where they may). In EV4 light, that's just fine for the way I shoot.
If I needed anything else I could move to another manufacturer, but I moved to Leica precisely because of what they leave out rather than what they add in. Minolta, the Sony of yesteryear, was my go to company for wizzbang, but their cameras always felt outclassed a couple of years after release and their technological advancements often proved hollow after the initial excitement wore off.
Still, anything above US$2,500 is too steep for me, so a film and a scanner are still the way to go for me if I wish to shoot a real rangefinder.
hendriphile
Well-known
Will they call it the M-E -P?
Godfrey
somewhat colored
+1
And the M, thicker?
The body is the same thickness as the M9, but the quoted dimensions are greater due to the thumb rest and control dial. As someone else said, I'd love it if they could make the camera as svelte as my M4-2, but I'm ok with the M9 as it is. Neither is small... Which is why I bought the X2 as well.
I'm excited by the M10. Yeah they left out the number, but that how I'll always think of it.
uhoh7
Veteran
The footprint of the original leica 1 would be nice.
In fact that really would be a coup: the 2013 Lecia one. Just a great EVF, tilting LCD and the best sensor they have. Weatherproof, and looking something like the original. M mount obviously.
The whole idea of the leica in the first place was a HIKING camera.
as you note CLE also a great size
Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
Leica could have morphed the M-E into an EVF-only body like the NEX7 or X-E1, but instead they rewarmed the M9 into this. Bleah.
Archlich
Well-known
Nicely put, we'll definitely have a string of special edition M-Es to address this issue.
Moriturii
Well-known
Just wondering, how hard would it be for Leica to make their M style cameras fairly weather-resistant? Can't they just seal up the edges around top plate / windows / bottom plate and insides? Shouldn't be too hard I would've thought, I mean it's almost as if DAG should be able to do it I feel like.