Leica LTM Leica 111G or 111F?

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
J

jack palmer

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I shoot with an .85 MP but would really like to try some eariler Leica screw mount lenses and a smaller body. I've never even held either one but which would be a better choice with a 35 and 50mm lens the 3G or 3F?
 
Hi Jack,

I have a .85 M7 and a IIIc. The IIIG is the dernier cri in screwmount Leicaland, but is "reassuringly expensive" as a result. The viewfinder is larger and clearer, but nothing compared to an M.

If you are looking at a IIIf, you may as well look at a IIIc. The viewfinder and handling are pretty well identical - the key difference is the flash capability of the IIIf. With either you will need an external VF for a 35mm, although I have found it just as easy to frame loosely and shoot.

Hope this helps,

Bill
 
Even though my IIIG is the only one of my Leica screwmounts that gets much work these days, I also recommend starting with one of the earlier models. If you really like using a screwmount and don't mind paying extra, then later on consider getting a IIIG.

My first and for a number of years only 35mm was a IIIa. It make a very small package with a small 35 or collapsible 50 mounted.
 
I'd advise going a IIIf Red Dial over earlier models. The Red Dial (and the IIIg of course) are all ball-bearing internally, which makes them more durable and easier to service/maintain than earlier versions. I'd love to have a IIIg one day, but they seem to be about 3 or 4 times more expensive than a comparable IIIf.
 
Keep in mind that your bayonet M mount lenses will not work on a Leica screw mount. Also, it is lower case f and g for these Barnacks unless you are referring to either the older III (Model F) or Leica IIIa Model G.

I still have a IIIf RD ST and a IIIg. More often than not, I grab the IIIf even though the IIIg has the more modern viewfinder and a modern progression of shutter speeds.

The key is that I have the proper bright-line finders for each focal length that I use. If you price the IIIf red dial with two Leitz finders, you'll find that you are getting into the price range of a well used IIIg. A pristine IIIg is over-priced.

The magnifications on the 5cm on up Leitz finders is 1:1. The VF on the IIIg is about .7x - and - parallax corrected. The IIIg VF has a set of 50/90 framelines in the finder. Both the IIIf and IIIg require separate finder for a 35mm focal length lens. I prefer the larger V/C model as opposed to their svelte 28/35 finder.

And yes I agree with all of the above posts, the IIIc is definitely a cleaner design, but I'll stick to the pair that I have.
 
I second the external finders. The SBOOI is the best 1:1 finder you could have on a camera. Small, unobtrusive, and it adds even more to the IIIs sexiness!
 
The IIIc is neat and plentifull , the IIIf red dial adds , to me , complicated flash capability , the IIIg is '' better '' but costs the same as an early M series - and looks like they lost the plot on style !!

[ not sour grapes - I have a IIIf and a IIIc , two for one IIIg !

But the little leicas are a dee-light !

dee
 
The IIIg, as mentioned above, has-built in frames for 50 and 90mm lenses and parallax, of course.

If you mount a 35mm lens and use the entire viewfinder area in framing your subject, you will find that this covers -for practical purposes- a true enough 35mm field.

The flash facility is for modern electronic units and the shutter speed values are what we are all familiar with today.

As for sexy or non sexy looks, and price, that's where personal tastes and depth of wallets come to play.
 
Are You sure?

Are You sure?

brachal said:
I'd advise going a IIIf Red Dial over earlier models. The Red Dial (and the IIIg of course) are all ball-bearing internally, which makes them more durable and easier to service/maintain than earlier versions. I'd love to have a IIIg one day, but they seem to be about 3 or 4 times more expensive than a comparable IIIf.
Click to expand...
Bill, my understanding is that some IIIc's had ball bearings, all IIIf's did as well as shutter brakes. The big difference with the Red Dial was mainly flash speed choice.
There may be some other construction improvements, but none that I feel would warrant paying the extra bucks for. I also thought that after servicing a IIIf most ended up up with red dial specs anyway due to part replacement inventories.
 
Dektol Dan said:
Bill, my understanding is that some IIIc's had ball bearings, all IIIf's did as well as shutter brakes. The big difference with the Red Dial was mainly flash speed choice.
There may be some other construction improvements, but none that I feel would warrant paying the extra bucks for. I also thought that after servicing a IIIf most ended up up with red dial specs anyway due to part replacement inventories.
Click to expand...

I was told about the ball bearings when I had my IIIf serviced recently. At least from a technician's point of view, the tech (who is pretty well thought of here) felt that the RD was much better than its predecessors for this reason.
 
Last edited:
Dektol Dan said:
Bill, my understanding is that some IIIc's had ball bearings, all IIIf's did as well as shutter brakes. The big difference with the Red Dial was mainly flash speed choice.
There may be some other construction improvements, but none that I feel would warrant paying the extra bucks for. I also thought that after servicing a IIIf most ended up up with red dial specs anyway due to part replacement inventories.
Click to expand...
I have also been trying to decide between a IIIc and IIIf and wonder if a IIIc without the ball bearings could be modified or upgraded to use ball bearings. I have also heard that the chrome is better quality on IIIf and IIIc - no first hand experience though.

Thanks!
 
gjlynx said:
I have also been trying to decide between a IIIc and IIIf and wonder if a IIIc without the ball bearings could be modified or upgraded to use ball bearings. I have also heard that the chrome is better quality on IIIf and IIIc - no first hand experience though.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

From what I know, Leica introduced a new shutter with the IIIf RD. For a time, Leica would upgrade your camera to the latest standard at the factory, so I guess it must be possible to put a RD shutter into a IIIc. I mean it was done in the past by Leica ... don't know about having it done now. As long as the IIIc was working properly, I wouldn't worry about it.
 
The IIIf is great. I don't worry about the framelines anymore. I just put a collapsible 50mm lens on it and only shoot with that. If I want framelines, I use my M8.
I like the small size of the IIIf. I use it outdoors with the sunny 16 rule.
Eric
 
I used to have a couple IIIfs with Leicavits - the best way to experience LTM I feel. A still compact camera with fast advance. Tried a IIIg but for its size you may as well get an M.

As for the finder on the IIIf, its true the IIIg has a better built in finder, but the IIIf has the 1.5x magnified focus rangefinder and I always used an external finder, the 50mm Leitz finder is great, big 1:1 clear and bright accurate framed view.

Get a late IIIf, it has the same more advanced shutter as the IIIg.
 
Just to add to the earlier comment about external viewfinders - I se the Cosina/Voightlander metal 50 mm finder on my IIIc. It is beautifully made and a delight to use (1:1 mag) and way way cheaper than the Leitz version. I believe the 35 VF's are as good. (see the cameraquest site)
David
 
A few weeks ago I considered trading one of my M3's for a IIIg but since I would be using wide (15mm) through normal (50mm) lens on it and seldom using a 90 I stayed with my IIIc and IIIf.

My 50mm f/1.5 Nokton lens is big enough to intrude into the viewfinders field of view so I use a shoe mounted 50mm bright line finder for composing after focus..
 
Dektol Dan said:
Bill, my understanding is that some IIIc's had ball bearings, all IIIf's did as well as shutter brakes.

The big difference with the Red Dial was mainly flash speed choice.

There may be some other construction improvements, but none that I feel would warrant paying the extra bucks for. I also thought that after servicing a IIIf most ended up up with red dial specs anyway due to part replacement inventories.
Click to expand...

If you have a post-war IIIc - it is fitted with mini ball bearings on the second curtain cam and main sprocket shaft.

The IIIf Black Dial evolved from the IIIc and used the same bearing arrangement.

Leitz redesigned the shutter when it released the IIIf Red Dial. The flash synch was increased from 1/30th to 1/50th of a second. To reach this modest increase in the synch speed the new design included the placement of an additional set of bearings onto the bottom shaft of the main shutter drum.

I'll defer to Tom Eitnier on the specifics. Youxin Ye said that the IIIf RDs that he has seen have shutter curtains and rangefinder patches that seem to age better than either the post war IIIc or IIIf.
 
Shac said:
Just to add to the earlier comment about external viewfinders - I se the Cosina/Voightlander metal 50 mm finder on my IIIc. It is beautifully made and a delight to use (1:1 mag) and way way cheaper than the Leitz version. I believe the 35 VF's are as good. (see the cameraquest site)
David
Click to expand...

I use a Leica briteline finder with 50mm lenses, and a CV metal 35mm finder with a 35mm lens on my Leica IIIf RD, and also on the IIIa that I have had for over 50 years. I like the CV finder, but, as a glasses wearer, it is not quite up to the convenience of the Leica finder.

Jim N.
 
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