Jark89
Member
Hello all! I'm here once again, seeking some guidance! I've tossed & turned on what lens to purchase, and I've finally set my eyes on the 35mm Summicron Version 1 (8 elements)!
I'm looking at a few dealers, however I've noticed the one (and only) local dealer here, their lens' "RED DOT" seems to be larger & located at a different spot than all the others I've seen from online. Also I noticed one sellers' red dot is RECESSED in, as opposed to protruding out! Please take a look at the pictures:
"Larger & differently located red dot"
"Regular size & correctly located red dot (I think)"
"Regular size & correctly located red dot, but RECESSED???"
If you notice, the red dot is larger on the first lens, and its also on the "DOF calculator" portion, as opposed to the "base" portion.
Another thing I've noticed is that, the "larger red dot" lens' serial number is very early, 165XXXX, as opposed to all the other ones I've looked at, which are all 2XXXXXX. Could this be the reason, that the really early ones had their red dots like that?
Hope to hear some thoughts soon as I'm eager to get one of these oldies! Thanks in advance!
I'm looking at a few dealers, however I've noticed the one (and only) local dealer here, their lens' "RED DOT" seems to be larger & located at a different spot than all the others I've seen from online. Also I noticed one sellers' red dot is RECESSED in, as opposed to protruding out! Please take a look at the pictures:
"Larger & differently located red dot"
"Regular size & correctly located red dot (I think)"
"Regular size & correctly located red dot, but RECESSED???"
If you notice, the red dot is larger on the first lens, and its also on the "DOF calculator" portion, as opposed to the "base" portion.
Another thing I've noticed is that, the "larger red dot" lens' serial number is very early, 165XXXX, as opposed to all the other ones I've looked at, which are all 2XXXXXX. Could this be the reason, that the really early ones had their red dots like that?
Hope to hear some thoughts soon as I'm eager to get one of these oldies! Thanks in advance!
Shac
Well-known
Just checking mine (it's made in Wetzlar) and it has the small red dot located as in your last 2 images.
On the one in the first image - is the red dot in a recess or just stuckon the outside? Also could this have been modifed from an M3 version? The early serioal number might support this possibility.
On the one in the first image - is the red dot in a recess or just stuckon the outside? Also could this have been modifed from an M3 version? The early serioal number might support this possibility.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Mine is very much like your second photo; small and down on the bayonet flange, not up higher as in your first photo. Additionally, it does appear recessed, as per your note on the third photo. I can't make out the red dot in the third photo, but mine meets that description.
I see some residue around the red dot in the first photo. It would appear that someone, some previous owner, has ordered a replacement dot from Leica. When it proved to be too large to fit in the recess, they no doubt just slapped it on with some epoxy or rubber cement. Look for a little dimple, down on the bayonet flange, on the first lens, right where the dor should really be. I bet it's there, devoid of dot.
I see some residue around the red dot in the first photo. It would appear that someone, some previous owner, has ordered a replacement dot from Leica. When it proved to be too large to fit in the recess, they no doubt just slapped it on with some epoxy or rubber cement. Look for a little dimple, down on the bayonet flange, on the first lens, right where the dor should really be. I bet it's there, devoid of dot.
Benjamin
Registered Snoozer
I can't believe that you guys are actually talking about 'the dot'..
Amazing!
Amazing!
Richard Marks
Rexel
Red dots do eventually fall off. If your dot is the wrong size Leica will send you the correct one (they did not charge me). They do vary on different lenses believe it or not!! It looks as though yours has been replaced not too neatly and, is there a bit of adhesive outside the dot. Regarding the location, look for a small dimple in the correct place!
Definately not worth worrying about if the lens is optically and mechanically good however use this to your advantage and negotiate hard on price!
Richard
Definately not worth worrying about if the lens is optically and mechanically good however use this to your advantage and negotiate hard on price!
Richard
HuubL
hunter-gatherer
I think the red dots on your first and second photos are in exactly the same location, although the one in the first photo is re-glued in a rather sloppy way. And yes, red dots come in different sizes. Don't worry. As the others said, check the mechanics and optics. The V1 is an expensive lens and you don't want to pay much for a bad one.
marke
Well-known
Can I get one in black? You know, to be more stealthy.
Artorius
Caribbean Traveler
Red Dot
Red Dot
Mine is one made in Canada. Yes, the dot seems huge.
Red Dot
Mine is one made in Canada. Yes, the dot seems huge.
Jark89
Member
Just got back, thanks for all the replies everyone! I know...I know...it seems a bit silly of me to be making a fuss about a little plastic red dot hahah, but, I haven't purchased the lens yet, and want to make sure there's nothing fishy.
I'm going to go to the local store (big red dot one) and check out the optics & mechanics for myself tomorrow. It'll be about the equivalent to $2,1637USD, other than the "dot", the cosmetics seem pretty decent.
Another lens I'm looking at I have to order on the web, but it is MUCH cheaper, only $1424.05, however it is pretty banged up and apparently the original owner etched some numbers on it (58060???). It is this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-Leitz-SUM...iewItemQQptZCamera_Lenses?hash=item1e58699916
Again, thanks for all the suggestions everyone!
I'm going to go to the local store (big red dot one) and check out the optics & mechanics for myself tomorrow. It'll be about the equivalent to $2,1637USD, other than the "dot", the cosmetics seem pretty decent.
Another lens I'm looking at I have to order on the web, but it is MUCH cheaper, only $1424.05, however it is pretty banged up and apparently the original owner etched some numbers on it (58060???). It is this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-Leitz-SUM...iewItemQQptZCamera_Lenses?hash=item1e58699916
Again, thanks for all the suggestions everyone!
raid
Dad Photographer
I want a green dot.
Come on guys; let it go.
Come on guys; let it go.
peter_n
Veteran
Mine is like the 3rd pic, recessed into the flange.
$2K+ for a v.1? That seems like an awful lot of money for that lens.
$2K+ for a v.1? That seems like an awful lot of money for that lens.
marke
Well-known
Oh, I see...you're going for the Christmas theme!
HuubL
hunter-gatherer
Edit of my post above. The red dots are in the same relative location. However, you're right that the dot should be glued onto the (shiny chrome) bayonet mount ring, whereas it is glued onto the matt chrome DOF scale. This is exactly as it is on my Summaron (also an early number 169....) where it is also a BIG dot, like here. On my later (219....) V1 Summicron the red dot is indeed smaller, as you expected. If I recall correctly, previous later Summarons had a smaller red dot on the bayonet mount.
So you could be right that this has to do with early lenses.
I agree that $2100 is a bit pricey for this lens (you can get mine for $2000
So you could be right that this has to do with early lenses.
I agree that $2100 is a bit pricey for this lens (you can get mine for $2000
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peter_n
Veteran
recessed into the flange - whoops I meant lens mount - that's what you get with no coffee...
Jark89
Member
Edit of my post above. The red dots are in the same relative location. However, you're right that the dot should be glued onto the (shiny chrome) bayonet mount ring, whereas it is glued onto the matt chrome DOF scale. This is exactly as it is on my Summaron (also an early number 169....) where it is also a BIG dot, like here. On my later (219....) V1 Summicron the red dot is indeed smaller, as you expected. If I recall correctly, previous later Summarons had a smaller red dot on the bayonet mount.
So you could be right that this has to do with early lenses.
I agree that $2100 is a bit pricey for this lens (you can get mine for $2000
I also found a couple of other "earlier" versions (serial #17.....) and they also had the "larger" red dot, so it looks like that's it.
As for price, that's pretty much the average here in China unfortunately. Good deals are few & far between, and usually get snatched up quickly. From what I saw on antiquecameras.net however, the price range is $1800 - $2300...so maybe that's the going price these days? Oh well...
Anyway, thanks for all the advice everyone, I really appreciate it!
raid
Dad Photographer
It is "the season", so a green dot would be suitable!
Plus, green stands for money, and using a Leica implies money!
kermaier
Well-known
The larger red dot on the satin-chrome part of the lower lens barrel is the "normal" size and location for an M-mount lens of that era.
The small red dot on the polished chrome rim of the mounting flange is there because that lens is one of the instances designed to be convertible from M to screw mount. This is done by loosening a set screw on the flange, and then unscrewing the flange from the mount, just like an LTM-M adapter. (The dot is on the flange instead of the barrel, because once the M-mount flange has been removed you don't need a dot on an LTM lens.)
Early vs. late serial numbers doesn't really enter into it, as convertible and non-convertible versions of the lens were produced concurrently.
A small number of these lenses were also produced in LTM mount without a removable M-mount flange. These can be differentiated from a convertible version lens with its flange missing by:
1. having no hole on the mount where the set screw would have been; and
2. by the fact that the closest focus distance is 1m (vs. 0.7m for the M-mount versions).
The LTM-mount version is a rare and expensive collectible, like the LTM-mount Rigid 50mm Summicron.
There is also the goggled M-mount version of this lens intended for the M3. These focus down to 0.65m, which is largely of interest in identifying a lens that's been butchered to remove the goggles -- it won't focus properly without them, so don't buy such a lens.
BTW, these same 4 variations are available for the 35/2.8 Summaron, which has an identical barrel/mount to the Summicron v1 (other than the f/2 vs. f/2.8 aperture markings, of course).
Enjoy!
::Ari
Edit: The lens with the "recessed" dot is one who's dot has been lost, and someone filled in the the empty socket with some red nail polish. These dots do tend to fall off. They're easily replaced (Lecia Repair in NJ sent me one for free) with a bit of super-glue or epoxy. The smears on the barrel around the one you saw with the large dot are from someone who used too much glue and had to wipe it off the barrel after he pressed the dot into the socket. If you want to fix up the one with the red nail polish, use a small amount of acetone on a Q-tip to remove it, then glue on a replacement dot.
The small red dot on the polished chrome rim of the mounting flange is there because that lens is one of the instances designed to be convertible from M to screw mount. This is done by loosening a set screw on the flange, and then unscrewing the flange from the mount, just like an LTM-M adapter. (The dot is on the flange instead of the barrel, because once the M-mount flange has been removed you don't need a dot on an LTM lens.)
Early vs. late serial numbers doesn't really enter into it, as convertible and non-convertible versions of the lens were produced concurrently.
A small number of these lenses were also produced in LTM mount without a removable M-mount flange. These can be differentiated from a convertible version lens with its flange missing by:
1. having no hole on the mount where the set screw would have been; and
2. by the fact that the closest focus distance is 1m (vs. 0.7m for the M-mount versions).
The LTM-mount version is a rare and expensive collectible, like the LTM-mount Rigid 50mm Summicron.
There is also the goggled M-mount version of this lens intended for the M3. These focus down to 0.65m, which is largely of interest in identifying a lens that's been butchered to remove the goggles -- it won't focus properly without them, so don't buy such a lens.
BTW, these same 4 variations are available for the 35/2.8 Summaron, which has an identical barrel/mount to the Summicron v1 (other than the f/2 vs. f/2.8 aperture markings, of course).
Enjoy!
::Ari
Edit: The lens with the "recessed" dot is one who's dot has been lost, and someone filled in the the empty socket with some red nail polish.
These dots do tend to fall off. They're easily replaced (Lecia Repair in NJ sent me one for free) with a bit of super-glue or epoxy. The smears on the barrel around the one you saw with the large dot are from someone who used too much glue and had to wipe it off the barrel after he pressed the dot into the socket. If you want to fix up the one with the red nail polish, use a small amount of acetone on a Q-tip to remove it, then glue on a replacement dot.
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Jark89
Member
peter_n
Veteran
Mine has a small dark red dot recessed into the polished lens mount but no screw or screws anywhere on the polished mount. Also the lens mount on mine is completely flush with the barrel, unlike all three in the OP's pics. It seems there were many variations.
kermaier
Well-known
I guess you're right -- yet another variation.