Leica breakages index, or: 50-plus things that can go wrong with your Leica ;)

[rxmd]

Hi,

some time ago I started to collect links to RFF threads describing various Leica problems for easier reference. I thought this might be handy so that when someone is looking for a specific problem, they can quickly find a thread similar instances and/or possible solutions. This was born largely out of frustration with the RFF search function, which won't let me search for terms like "M5" because it idiotically expects search terms to have at least three letters, and with Google site search which will return lots of spurious threads on problems with all sorts of cameras because everybody puts their Leica collection in their signature.

Here's the list. I've indexed the list by thread number and also added a reference to the type of problem encountered.

A - Advance mechanism & lever, rewind issues
C - Frame counter
D - Speed dial
E - Electronics
F - Viewfinder
L - Light sealing
Q - QC problems, bad assembly
R - Rangefinder
S - Shutter
O - Other

M2:

59484 A - Camera won't rewind, washer broken
58094 S - Partially blank frames at 1/250 and faster
41948 S - Uneven exposure, shutter capping
38161 O - Self release arm dangling loose
29600 R - Rangefinder arm hanging down
19430 F - Rangefinder patch has a nick

M3:

58893 O - Flash fires at wrong moment
50664 F - Two framelines visible simultaneously
50360 S - Shutter stuck open
48165 S - Slow speeds intermittently fail in CLA'd M3
48137 S - Dark areas in negative, shutter bounce
22147 S - Shutter jammed, edge visible

M4:

60976 A - Shutter intermittently fires immediately after advance
59253 A - Frame overlaps, rest of film is blank
58531 C - Counter won't reset, hangs at 40
51913 A - Film won't advance
19386 A - Spurious jams, film won't transport

M5:

39729 C - Counter won't reset, hangs at 9
33947 F - Viewfinder flare

M6:

61050 A - Jam, advances multiple times, shutter button stuck
60841 F - Frameline lever too far right, hangs loose with specific lens
60402 E - Meter sensitivity problems
59673 A - Film jams, won't advance
59390 F - Frameline won't come up completely
58626 A - Film may not advance, tulip sometimes won't turn on CLA'd camera
58135 L - Faint lines across negative; bayonet light leak
57787 L - Light leaks when changing lenses
51357 S - Shutter won't fire
50622 E - Erratic meter behaviour at some shutter speeds
48995 E - Meter deactivates on every third shot
48338 E - Meter won't switch off, battery drains in a couple of hours
48061 E - Meter overexposes with lens, works fine without lens
44272 A - Advance lever broken
44024 S - Slow speeds escapement hangs, seam visible
44016 A - Film jams, stiffened advance
43612 E - Light meter underexposes by 2 stops
42816 L - Light leaks through the back
40862 A - Advance jammed after drop
40324 C - Counter won't reset, stuck at 40
39311 SA - Completely jammed
38876 F - Hair line in the metering patch
38767 S - Uneven exposure at high speeds
36858 F - Dust in the viewfinder
35907 A - Scratched film
34838 S - Uneven exposure, possibly shutter brake
29689 A - Film advance suddenly stiff
27675 A - Erratic film advance jams every couple of frames
27574 C - Counter won't reset, hangs at 10
9165 E - Light meter switches off when underexposure

M7:

59687 C - Counter won't reset, hangs at 15. User suggests banging against table.
45768 E - DX coding, camera picks wrong ISO value
43704 E - DX coding, blinking ISO value problem
30495 A - Advance lever stuck
31216 E - Electronics issues with spurious "bc" warnings and blinking LEDs
24217 E - DX code reading issues, months in service, no solution
21234 D - Speed dial values off by one

MP:

60412 E - Battery drains in a couple of hours
37426 Q - ISO dial falling off
16896 E - New battery, left LED blinking constantly

(I admit that posting this is partially motivated by Ted/ampguy's thread on how Leicas aren't solid enough for him.)

Note that because Leicas are technically almost identical in many respect, there are a lot of potential failure modes that are transferable to other models. Obviously an M3 won't have electronics issues, but an M2 might well have the same shutter or light leak issues as an M6.

Note also that this is a completely random collection which is in no way complete. It is no complete list of potential failures with Leicas, nor is it a complete list of all the RFF threads on Leica problems. It is also not representative in any quantitative way - because of the obvious observation that there's many more M6s than M5s or MPs, for example, and because of the availability of factory warranty for the later models where people may not report a problem, but send it in straightaway.

I can add more links to the list as they pop up or as people point them out to me if anyone's interested.

Philipp

 

[rxmd]

That said, it's of course quite unscientific to draw conclusions from this list but I'll do it anyway and state the obvious:

- Leicas are prone to the same issues as any other camera: jams, light leaks, transport failures, electronics glitches, what have you. Bluntly speaking, Leicas, although less frequently. show the same reliability issues as Canons or Zorkies.

- "Built like a tank" is probably an exaggeration. Or it might actually be quite accurate, as the failure modes of a tank are somewhat similar: they usually don't collapse completely, but it's the individual subassemblies that mey fail nonetheless, sometimes rendering the whole tank unusable.

- Don't hammer nails into your wall with your Leica even though it feels solid and heavy. Don't bang your Leica around, no matter how hefty it feels. That's just how it feels. Many failures happen with small, delicate subassemblies inside that solid and heavy body. It's heavy, that is all.

- If you want your Leica to live and see old age, it won't hurt to give it to a qualified serviceman every couple of years.

Philipp

 

[chikne]

You forgot to list the possible breakages on the M8 😀

 

[Keith]

You forgot to list the possible breakages on the M8 😀

Hey ... he's thirty already. Not enough time left to do the M8! 😛

Can't believe I said that! 😱😱

 

[Benjamin Marks]

How about a category for wallets and budgets . . . ? Seriously though, you really can't say anything about the reliability of Leicas until you understand something about their peer group (e.g. for M2's, M3's how many other cameras from the mid-nineteen fifties are still being used every day?) and the mean-time-between-failures for these astonishing machines. Don't get me wrong, I think the thread is valuable, particularly as it will allow folks with similar problems to compare notes. But drawing conclusions about durability? Not advised.

Quizzically,

Ben Marks

 

[tripod]

It sounds like that Simon and Garfunkel song: 50 ways to leave your lover

Just slip out the back, Jack.
Make a new plan, Stan.
No need to be coy, Roy.
Just set yourself free!

 

[fawate]

There is another problem with the M6 that, while aesthetic, is very annoying. Its top plate bubbles. I know, mine has.

 

[rxmd]

It sounds like that Simon and Garfunkel song: 50 ways to leave your lover

Just slip out the back, Jack.
Make a new plan, Stan.
No need to be coy, Roy.
Just set yourself free!

(http://xkcd.com/118/)

 

[ampguy]

good info. - thanks.

 

[Shac]

Phillip - thank you this is really useful. A lot of work but appreciated
David

 

[Roberto]

Please make this sticky..
Rob.

 

[ferider]

Sticky, please.

Thanks, Philipp.

 

[ampguy]

Thanks again Philipp for putting all of this together. BTW, the link often referenced to Kyle Cassidy's page on the rewind issue is dead, but the archive.org link is semi-functional:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070808082902/www.asc.upenn.edu/usr/cassidy/leicaslacker/rewind.html

Somewhere out there is also a detailed DIY page with photos, I'll post if I find it again.

 

[vieri]

Philipp, thank you very much for the compilation job - very useful & interesting. This to me shows that Leica cameras, as anything on this planet, aren't eternal and are prone to mechanical failures; this isn't new, I think everyone - or at least most people - knew that already. As well, as anything mechanical Leica cameras need to be serviced, CLAd and taken care of from time to time (every two years is a good interval, it seems): not knowing what kind of care the owners of the cameras reported in this statistic took, makes the statistic somehow of lesser value IMHO. All this said, what is really interesting to me regarding Leicas being "built like a tank", or "built to last" and so on is that... well, they are: we are talking about M2s (discontinued 41 years ago), M3s (discontinued 42 years ago), M4s (discontinued 34 years ago), M5s (discontinued 33 years ago), M4-2 (discontinued 28 years ago), M4-P (discontinued 21 years ago) cameras as old or older than most people on the forum here 😀 which seem to be standing the test of time pretty well; not many mechanical manufactures of any kind of the same age and from the same period still see use today, let alone being trouble-free today; as far as the newest cameras, the M6, M7 & MP suffer statistically more due to being more diffused, and probably built with less care or passing through a less strict QC; still, I don't think that generally speaking we could complain much about our Leicas, especially if compared to other 35 mm cameras - that said, I do understand how everyone would like to have a camera that works perfectly all the time without needing for any care - still, I'll take a film M any day over any other 35 mm film camera of any brand built on the same year, both in general and as far as durability goes 😀

 

[rxmd]

Added some stuff. 🙂