Leica CL & Elmarit to be announced on 11/21/17

PatrickT said:
What is the real differentiation between this new camera and the existing TL? I realize the TL doesn't have a built-in viewfinder (although an add on EVF is available) and is quite modern in its look and control scheme. Just seems weird to me to produce the same product with a few different "features".
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Not much but enough to make it seem a little more traditional.

I'll be honest, when I read digital CL, I was thinking about (and hoping for) a cheaper full-frame Leica M 🙁
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Yeah this continues to be everyone's dream... but it is never happening. Cheap and Leica M are not synonymous.
 
Every new rumor or actual product from Leica Camera AG generates exactly same reaction.
Which is "Leica is bad in quality and awful in service, but expensive".

How it is different from many other expressive and nice objects? Landrover comes to my mind. Same prestige, same pleasure, same "quality", same "service". But people keep on buying it, for prestige, pleasure and few for actual hard use. Just like with Leica. 🙂

Cheap Leica means MiC. For labor and parts. As of now it means working fine, service is in quick shoveling of parts and it could be made in millions. Do you really need this Leica? Why? Want to buy from Amazon or even Walmart?
 
Ko.Fe. said:
Every new rumor or actual product from Leica Camera AG generates exactly same reaction.
Which is "Leica is bad in quality and awful in service, but expensive".

How it is different from many other expressive and nice objects? Landrover comes to my mind. Same prestige, same pleasure, same "quality", same "service". But people keep on buying it, for prestige, pleasure and few for actual hard use. Just like with Leica. 🙂

Cheap Leica means MiC. For labor and parts. As of now it means working fine, service is in quick shoveling of parts and it could be made in millions. Do you really need this Leica? Why? Want to buy from Amazon or even Walmart?
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Because people usually don't complain much when there is a warranty attached to it. Also, there are many very expensive things out there that do perform and hold up will over time. The 911 isn't a cheap car in any spec but they are very reliable. Toyota trucks and SUVs from 10 years ago are still over $20k with over 100k miles because they are reliable. The problem with Leica is they make a product that is extremely similar to others on the market with well below average customer support with well above average prices.
 
brennanphotoguy said:
Because people usually don't complain much when there is a warranty attached to it. Also, there are many very expensive things out there that do perform and hold up will over time. The 911 isn't a cheap car in any spec but they are very reliable. Toyota trucks and SUVs from 10 years ago are still over $20k with over 100k miles because they are reliable. The problem with Leica is they make a product that is extremely similar to others on the market with well below average customer support with well above average prices.
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Porsche had it problems too. Remember the class action lawsuit over the intermediate shaft bearing failure. Porsche did an engine redesign and put a copy machine bearing in supporting the intermediate shaft. Failure of the bearing resulted in total destruction of the engine. This problem occurred in engines generally having less than 40,000 miles. It took a class action lawsuit to get Porsche to make good on replacing engines that had been trashed.

I'm an ex Porsche owner that was very lucky with no issues in over 125,000 miles but I backed out of buying another new one last year because of the way they treated customers. If I'm spending $150,000 for something I expect the company to stand behind it without a fight. Same goes for Leica.
 
And Toyota has had lots of engine sludge problems over the years. Besides the point, though. Except for a discussion on perceived ideas and the marketplace...

What does this new Leica bring to the table of 24MP interchangeable lens aps-c cameras? Just a red dot. That might be enough!
 
to me its Leica's lack of competitive ingenuity in 2017, they need a Steve Jobs type who understands their products and brand AND who understands who their customer is, what that customer wants and how to beat the Sony/Fuji competition for that very same market niche! And at a realistic price.....
 
FujiLove said:
Your experience is the first thing I thought of when I saw this.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to book a sensor replacement at the time of purchase, so you will be 'in the queue' when it breaks, and have a chance of getting the camera back within nine months?

Or just buy something else.
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Hey, only 1% will have sensor failure! Just like what someone claimed that's what Leica told them about the M9!
 
Huss said:
Hey, only 1% will have sensor failure! Just like what someone claimed that's what Leica told them about the M9!
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Wouldn't you love to know the true numbers.

With my M9 the sensor failed causing magenta splotches in the image. It wasn't corrosion as most were. My problem started about three months or so after buying it new. Then I started having RF problems that required severAl trips back and a problem with my 90 Apo that worked perfectly on my film bodies but wouldn't work with my M9. It doesn't make sense because it's just a mechanical linkage and you'd think if it worked on 3 M film bodies it'd work on the M9. All other lenses worked on both film and digital except the 90. I forced Leica to replace it and it worked perfectly on the M9 after that. ???
 
danielsterno said:
to me its Leica's lack of competitive ingenuity in 2017, they need a Steve Jobs type who understands their products and brand AND who understands who their customer is, what that customer wants and how to beat the Sony/Fuji competition for that very same market niche! And at a realistic price.....
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Uhmmm, I think they know their customers very well and that's why they opened boutique stores. If you've ever experienced a Leica boutique store, you'd know this product is perfect for them. I think many of us think Leica caters to us... that we are their target customer. However, many of us are not... and Sony and Fuji are not its competition. Luxury brands are its competition. Sure, we love the M. We love the Leica of old. But Leica is never going to compete on price with mass produced products.
 
The rumored camera looks nice, a TL model with built in viewfinder and a more 'standard' control setup. Looks like it will be a nice camera, particularly if it can use all the existing TL lenses.

Of course it's expensive ... did you really think they'd sell it for Fuji prices? Who cares? If you can only afford the Fuji, buy the Fuji.

G
 
Godfrey said:
If you can only afford the Fuji, buy the Fuji.
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Yeah, screw the plebs who can't afford the Red Dot, right?

Who cares what the camera brings to the table in terms of capabilities or quality of output - if you've got the money, obviously you buy the Leica. A Fuji is just so pedestrian.

FWIW I wouldn't buy either.
 
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