Leica Digital M is going forward

S

Sean Reid

Guest
I can't discuss any details but I want to reassure folks who are hoping for the Leica digital M that Leica is indeed still working hard on the camera's development and has every intention of bringing it to production. I know that some of us would like that release date to be tomorrow but since we know that can't happen it's at least good to know that Leica still plans to release this camera in 2006.

Cheers,

Sean
 
I wonder how far into the five-digit range the price will be by the time they do release it (assuming they survive that long...)
 
Five digits? Four, I think, is much more likely. If they build it the way I hope they do, it's going to be an expensive camera. Their challenge, I think (with respect to the camera itself) is not to make it cheaper but rather to make it worth what it will cost.
 
Sean, If you did discuss details would your life be in danger? The people at RFF are very trustworthy. I am sure no one here would tell anyone. Maybe Jorge could figure out a way for you to do a mass Private Message to all RFF members with the juicy gossip. Anyway, I know I wouldn't be afraid of those Leica execs. 🙂
 
kbg32 said:
Zeiss might very well beat Leica to the market.

That would be a hoot! Something Leica said couldn't be done, done twice.... I'll crack my sides laughing if Zeiss really would pull it off. 😀
 
Sean Reid said:
Five digits? Four, I think, is much more likely.

I hope you're right. But the film version already has a four-digit pricetag -- so they'd have to keep the price multiple at about 3x in order to stay at four digits. The Epson R-D1 costs about 5x the price of its film relative, so Leica might be tempted to feel they can sell a digital M at about $15,000.

Of course the limited edition Hermes porno-plutocracy model will cost more...
 
Sean Reid said:
it's at least good to know that Leica still plans to release this camera in 2006.
Sean
At the time the question is if Leica Camera still exists in 2006. They need money to develop this product but after they have lost half of their capital the banks don't give them any more. So how can it work ? Do they have an investor tough enuff to fight the Epson/Cosina and Zeiss/Cosina projects ?
 
Honestly, every time I start thinking about the future of the digital M, the price tag issue just makes me cringe. Even disregarding the prices we'd get from extrapolating from film vs digital markups and looking at just digital examples alone, for the price of Leica's Digital Module R back, you can either buy a full Nikon D2X pro-caliber body with more megapixels, high-speed crop, and state-of-the-art autofocus and ergonomics, or a full Canon 1DII pro-caliber body with a larger sensor size, blistering autofocus and shooting speed, and still have over $1000 to spend on glass. Or compare the huge price difference between the virtually identical Leica Digilux 2 and the Pasonic LC-1. Will Leica shooters really be able to stomach the inevitable digital markup on a digital M, which will be based on what is already the most expensive 35mm film body in the world?

Leica will not be trying to undercut the competition with price; however, with the likes of Nikon and Canon being so far ahead of them in the digital game, how will they be able to make the digital M anywhere near competitive if they can't do it through volume/price, specs/features, or raw build quality and longevity? The Epson is already priced at a barely-tolerable level of absurdity!

It would be hard enough for Leica to pull it off as it is, but with Zeiss and Epson in the tiny digital rangefinder market as well, Leica has a very long and hard uphill battle in front of them. And with the collector's market for Leicas offsetting the usual digital depreciation, I don't see how I'll ever be able to own a digital M. Ever. Without resorting to either theft or selling body parts, of course. 😀
 
and don't forget that by the time you start seeing used versions of the 1st digital M's they will be considered dinosaurs technology wise>
 
I doubt a full-frame digital rangefinder will come anytime soon. Affordable full-frame DSLR's are at LEAST 2 generations away (which is 3 years total if you're talking Canon DSLR generations, 5-6 years for Nikon 😀) and rangefinders not only have the incident-angle issue to deal with, but also a much smaller market that will drive up costs enormously. You will see affordable full-frame DSLR's long before a full-frame digital rangefinder, affordable or not. 😀

The digital M's presumed 1.37x crop factor compared to the R-D1's 1.53x crop factor is a baby step in the right direction, but it's a long, long road ahead, and the incident-angle hurdle only gets dramatically worse as sensors get closer to full-frame.
 
I don't care about the price of a digital M, I can't even afford a film M 🙂
OTOH I realy hope that it will be breathtaking. As far as I know, the digtial back is full 16bit. This should produce dynamic range I can only dream of with my clumsy D60.
Some more saving, and I can get an Epson and a CV 28 for christmas.
 
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Actually as much as I would love a Digital M I think a Digital Ricoh GR-1 may be the way to go....and hopefully it will turn up some time in the second half of this year???

I have held out from buying any digital camera so far but if this digi GR-1 does eventuate, and carries over all the things that made the film GR-1 so excellent (size, build quality, manual controls and most importantly that great little 28mm lens!) then I will be lining up to buy one. I have heard that it will be 5mp and will have either an APS or perhaps even 4/3's sensor.

At the 2004 Photokina Ricoh had some interesting posters as well as a tribute stand to the evolution of the GR-1. Have a look at this link;

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/parts/image_for_link/1842-160-11-1.html

And for those who can read Japanese....I can't ;( here is the full story:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/other/2004/09/29/160.html
 
Digital M?

Methinks a better idea is a digital Q

As in a digital Canonet QL 17

Or Himatic

or Oly RD etc.

Think about it. Say a nice 8 megapixel chip in a small rangefinder body with a sharp, fast f1.5 fixed lens (in 35 or 50mm equivalent options). No need for full frame, the fixed lens would be made to cover one of the proven APS sized chips already out there and getting cheaper by the day. Select a chip and firmware (canon CMOS?) that delivers good high iso performance and price the whole shebang at $699.

I'd buy two.
 
CraigK said:
Think about it. Say a nice 8 megapixel chip in a small rangefinder body with a sharp, fast f1.5 fixed lens (in 35 or 50mm equivalent options). No need for full frame, the fixed lens would be made to cover one of the proven APS sized chips already out there and getting cheaper by the day. Select a chip and firmware (canon CMOS?) that delivers good high iso performance and price the whole shebang at $699.

I'd buy two.

At that price, I'd gladly sell my R-D1. 😀

I think you'd need to buy a lot more than two to get the price down that far though -- Canon makes 130,000 Rebel XT's per month at the specs you listed to get the price down to $1000. AFAIK even Bessas don't have anywhere near that large of a total production run, nevermind monthly numbers.

This is the first I've heard of a possible digital GR-1 though, and if it does come with a nice 28mm-equivalent lens and is priced reasonably... oh, my poor credit card.
 
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