Adanac
Well-known
The M is a M9 with an updated sensor based on commodity CMOS electronics, has various performance updates as you'd expect, has live view, finally, and an external EVF. I was pleasantly surprised to see it priced like the M9 used to be rather than coming in at a new elevated premium.
While I do think this is the very first digital M I have ever remotely contemplated wanting to buy, my reaction isn't one of wonder or awe but of thinking "finally".
As in... "finally" the M catches up with the many other live view camera implementations. Finally you can use any focal length lens on the camera from ultra-wide to really long and still reliably focus and compose. Finally you can shoot some video for those times when you wish you could. Finally you can use macro rings and other such devices at will. All these things have been possible with other cameras for quite some time, and possible with M lenses via adapters on other cameras for quite some time.
We aren't taking anything away from the M by labelling it evolutionary instead of revolutionary.
I wonder how long it'll be until the next catch-up product release will be.
While I do think this is the very first digital M I have ever remotely contemplated wanting to buy, my reaction isn't one of wonder or awe but of thinking "finally".
As in... "finally" the M catches up with the many other live view camera implementations. Finally you can use any focal length lens on the camera from ultra-wide to really long and still reliably focus and compose. Finally you can shoot some video for those times when you wish you could. Finally you can use macro rings and other such devices at will. All these things have been possible with other cameras for quite some time, and possible with M lenses via adapters on other cameras for quite some time.
We aren't taking anything away from the M by labelling it evolutionary instead of revolutionary.
I wonder how long it'll be until the next catch-up product release will be.
bwcolor
Veteran
Leica needs a follow-on product in a few years. Some M will move to the used market and the usual suspects will upgrade. For many it isn't about need. It is about want. This is the first digital Leica that might have me selling equipment. I'll wait for a year and see how things shake out.
bugmenot
Well-known
And better phrase for this thread's title would be "Leica caught up...".
That would reflect the fest Leica achieved this Photokina quite perfectly. They caught up in terms of their digital evolution to what a Canon 5D II did four years ago.
It is by no means a small achievement, and it will certainly tempt more photographers that can afford the price to shoot with rangefinders, whether that means actually using the RF mechanism or not is a different discussion.
That would reflect the fest Leica achieved this Photokina quite perfectly. They caught up in terms of their digital evolution to what a Canon 5D II did four years ago.
It is by no means a small achievement, and it will certainly tempt more photographers that can afford the price to shoot with rangefinders, whether that means actually using the RF mechanism or not is a different discussion.
JChrome
Street Worker
It's hard for me to get excited over things like this. I know I will never buy one.
With electronics there is never some perfect zen state. Never an end. There will always be some new mode for nightvision, seeing through clothes or around a corner. There will be Lytro-style focusing in post production. There will be dynamic ISO ranges on the sensor so that the shadows hitting one part of the sensor will be higher ISO and the highlights hitting another part a lower ISO (almost like HDR but in one exposure).
Sure advantages abound from all of this. But with every advantage comes a cost.
And I will keep getting great shots from my $100 Nikon FM.
With electronics there is never some perfect zen state. Never an end. There will always be some new mode for nightvision, seeing through clothes or around a corner. There will be Lytro-style focusing in post production. There will be dynamic ISO ranges on the sensor so that the shadows hitting one part of the sensor will be higher ISO and the highlights hitting another part a lower ISO (almost like HDR but in one exposure).
Sure advantages abound from all of this. But with every advantage comes a cost.
And I will keep getting great shots from my $100 Nikon FM
.
Still trying to figure out why it has weather sealing when none of the lenses do.
PatrickCheung
Well-known
I'm personally not too happy about the M, but that doesn't mean I'm not impressed by what Leica did with it.
Not happy because it steps a little bit away from the pure rangefinder experience (SLR mount lenses, live view, etc.).
Impressed because Leica had the guts to develop a camera that attempts to cater to the needs of the modern photographer despite people who desire a full-frame digital pure rangefinder camera... people like me
I think it's about time Leica caught up to the current state of digital cameras, and I'm happy that they did. They've made themselves a more viable option to photographers, which sort of ensures The M a longer lifespan than it would have as a rangefinder-only camera.
Now all they need to do is slap on a... viable and realistic price tag.
Not happy because it steps a little bit away from the pure rangefinder experience (SLR mount lenses, live view, etc.).
Impressed because Leica had the guts to develop a camera that attempts to cater to the needs of the modern photographer despite people who desire a full-frame digital pure rangefinder camera... people like me
I think it's about time Leica caught up to the current state of digital cameras, and I'm happy that they did. They've made themselves a more viable option to photographers, which sort of ensures The M a longer lifespan than it would have as a rangefinder-only camera.
Now all they need to do is slap on a... viable and realistic price tag.
Borge H
Established
I guess I will buy one Leica M when they become available. They say January, but I think it will be more likely in next autumn for us regular users.
I have a M2, a M4-P, a M6 and since last November a M9. Since then I gradually have become more and more digital. The quality of the M9 files gives me what I want. It is like using a mechanical Leica. A funny thing is that most people think its an old camera, you really have to show them the LCD-screen to make them understand! Now the cost of the new M will not be that much as many was afraid of earlier. About the same as the M9-P before the announcement of the M.
With live view and better ISO-performance I will be very happy! The external viewer reminds me of my Visoflex III. But can I use my Visoflex-lenses? I guess I have to have a macro-ring with the same distance as the Visoflex? Have any-one heard anything? I would like to use my 200 mm lens with the electronic Visoflex! The movie function I guess I will not use that much.
I guess the future of rangefinders is digital. But I will continue to use my old mechanical Leicas as long film and chemicals are available.
I have a M2, a M4-P, a M6 and since last November a M9. Since then I gradually have become more and more digital. The quality of the M9 files gives me what I want. It is like using a mechanical Leica. A funny thing is that most people think its an old camera, you really have to show them the LCD-screen to make them understand! Now the cost of the new M will not be that much as many was afraid of earlier. About the same as the M9-P before the announcement of the M.
With live view and better ISO-performance I will be very happy! The external viewer reminds me of my Visoflex III. But can I use my Visoflex-lenses? I guess I have to have a macro-ring with the same distance as the Visoflex? Have any-one heard anything? I would like to use my 200 mm lens with the electronic Visoflex! The movie function I guess I will not use that much.
I guess the future of rangefinders is digital. But I will continue to use my old mechanical Leicas as long film and chemicals are available.
fotomeow
name under my name
ya, its "better". but a couple things: i still havent read any review of the sound it makes when shutter recocking.
To me, that was the worst thing about the M8/M9. A horrific noise for a "RF".
Did they tone it down with the new M releases?
Second, I wish they would make it easier to code the lenses. without coding, you can only use live view, b/c the camera cant ID the proper framelines.
Leica makes it quite cumbersome for someone to code their own lenses,
and quite expensive to have to send in your lens to a Leica repair shop for coding.
But I am impressed with the cost, that they were able to keep the price the same as the prior M9s.
They finally got the message that their sh*t is too expensive.
To me, that was the worst thing about the M8/M9. A horrific noise for a "RF".
Did they tone it down with the new M releases?
Second, I wish they would make it easier to code the lenses. without coding, you can only use live view, b/c the camera cant ID the proper framelines.
Leica makes it quite cumbersome for someone to code their own lenses,
and quite expensive to have to send in your lens to a Leica repair shop for coding.
But I am impressed with the cost, that they were able to keep the price the same as the prior M9s.
They finally got the message that their sh*t is too expensive.
larmarv916
Well-known
My complaint with the new digital Leica M bodies is that the rangefinder base is super short....much shorter than the standard .72 viewfinder or the .85 Not to mention the luxury of the M3 of .92 magnification. The short the rangefinder base length the less accurate the focusing. That was always Leica's "dogma" about why images were so sharp.
I guess now in retrospect none of that mattered ?
I guess now in retrospect none of that mattered ?
Shutterspark
The perpetual new guy.
As much sense as your argument makes, things like "how much better can it get" never really hold true for anything in the tech segment. We just haven't imagined what comes next yet.
That said, as a photographic tool, I imagine many people will be satisfied with it for a good long time.
Teuthida
Well-known
This is exactly what I said when the M5 came out in71.
In hindsight, I was probably the only person saying that.
luuca
Well-known
there is still room to improve digital M bodies... in size for example. I'd like next M could be thinner than M8-M9-MM-M... just like my MP
Kent
Finally at home...
Perhaps even higher. Yesterday a high official of Leica told me that ISO 6400 was just published because they can guarantee top performance there.
But since they are not yet finished fine-tuning and debugging the firmware, perhaps even a higher ISO is possible!
Borge H
Established
You can go into the main menu of the present M9 and change the shutter actuation so that the shutter hooks after you lift your finger from it. It is very useful. I think most people use it. With this option you press the shutter and get a very soft "click". Then you can take the camera down and lift your finger and get the mechanical "klab-dasch" where none sees it. So I think the noise is no problem with single pictures. It is not like a Nikon or a Canon or even worse a Hasselblad!
The coding of the lens is also no problem with M9, if you want that information you can manually input code for all Leica lenses in the menu. You do not have to code lenses mechanically. For the picture quality I think it is only necessary for wide angle lenses wider than 50 mm. I think the camera processes these pictures different from the 50 mm and longer.
Try a Leica M9, you will like it!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Hardly. The new sensor was designed in Belgium, especially for Leica, and is manufactured in France.The M is a M9 with an updated sensor based on commodity CMOS electronics, has various performance updates as you'd expect, has live view, finally, and an external EVF. I was pleasantly surprised to see it priced like the M9 used to be rather than coming in at a new elevated premium.
While I do think this is the very first digital M I have ever remotely contemplated wanting to buy, my reaction isn't one of wonder or awe but of thinking "finally".
As in... "finally" the M catches up with the many other live view camera implementations. Finally you can use any focal length lens on the camera from ultra-wide to really long and still reliably focus and compose. Finally you can shoot some video for those times when you wish you could. Finally you can use macro rings and other such devices at will. All these things have been possible with other cameras for quite some time, and possible with M lenses via adapters on other cameras for quite some time.
We aren't taking anything away from the M by labelling it evolutionary instead of revolutionary.
I wonder how long it'll be until the next catch-up product release will be.
Cheers,
RR.
Kent
Finally at home...
Sorry to disagree.
It was calculated in Belgium, designed in France and it actually is manufactured near Görlitz.
f6andBthere
Well-known
I heard a comment on the new i-Phone 5 that made me laugh the other day. Someone remarked that Apple keeps making smarter phones with each new generation. Someone else commented ... "No not really, they just add a few more useless features to the old one then go out looking for dumber customers!"
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Ah, thank you. I was merely going on Leica's own information. Of course, it could be that I misunderstood. From memory (I'm too busy to check), they say that the sensor was developed in Belgium; the chip is manufactured in France; and the sensor is assembled in Germany.
Whatever the detail, I think we can agree it's not a commodity CMOS.
Cheers,
R.
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
It looks great and all that but do I want one? ... NO.
I'll stick with my M3 and M4-P.
It's not desirable to me because it is no longer an M (IMO). Leica needs this camera so they can stay in business which is a good thing. I wish them well.
I'll stick with my M3 and M4-P.
It's not desirable to me because it is no longer an M (IMO). Leica needs this camera so they can stay in business which is a good thing. I wish them well.
How is it no longer a M?