John Shriver
Well-known
That's one way to avoid swirly bokeh on a Summar!
Leica III - light leak?
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batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
I can't be the only one who's always wondered what that would do (but is too cheap to try out) so thanks from all of us.
I find the shot strangely intriguing, actually.
I find the shot strangely intriguing, actually.
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
I shall write to the Powers to start a sub-forum for photos taken with collapsed lenses. Just to make RFF a well rounded place.
kidblue
Established
Hey party-people - Scans are imminent, but I figured I'd be economical and continue this thread rather than start a new one.
I recently got a gorgeous IIIC from a very well-regarded forum-member. It had been CLA'd by Youxin not even a year ago!
It arrived from a transpacific journey in great condition, and after a quick rangefinder calibration, I loaded it and shot my first roll. Everything went as planned.
Unfortunately, it seems to be exhibiting a light leak. It's fully vertical, and covers the entire strip, from top-sprocket to bottom-sprocket. The roll (400, Tri-X) was shot almost entirely with Sunny 16, and a ton of the shots were at 1/500 and 1/1000. They seem to have little rhyme or reason, occurring with frequency but not consistency - Sometimes two in a row, sometimes none for three or four frames. The leak is in the exact same place every frame, about 2/3 of the way to the left of the frame.
The seller I bought it from assured me that he shot mostly higher speed film with it (he's a very trustworthy and classy dude) and even shot a test roll before he shipped it. Youxin seems to think that there may be a "brake" problem at higher shutter speeds.
Has anyone here had any experience with shutter brakes needing adjustment or going out of whack after a reliable and sturdy shipment? What kind of work is that? Any ideas as to what else could be causing a leak like this?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts and I'll add scans tomorrow...
N.
I recently got a gorgeous IIIC from a very well-regarded forum-member. It had been CLA'd by Youxin not even a year ago!
It arrived from a transpacific journey in great condition, and after a quick rangefinder calibration, I loaded it and shot my first roll. Everything went as planned.
Unfortunately, it seems to be exhibiting a light leak. It's fully vertical, and covers the entire strip, from top-sprocket to bottom-sprocket. The roll (400, Tri-X) was shot almost entirely with Sunny 16, and a ton of the shots were at 1/500 and 1/1000. They seem to have little rhyme or reason, occurring with frequency but not consistency - Sometimes two in a row, sometimes none for three or four frames. The leak is in the exact same place every frame, about 2/3 of the way to the left of the frame.
The seller I bought it from assured me that he shot mostly higher speed film with it (he's a very trustworthy and classy dude) and even shot a test roll before he shipped it. Youxin seems to think that there may be a "brake" problem at higher shutter speeds.
Has anyone here had any experience with shutter brakes needing adjustment or going out of whack after a reliable and sturdy shipment? What kind of work is that? Any ideas as to what else could be causing a leak like this?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts and I'll add scans tomorrow...
N.
john neal
fallor ergo sum
kidblue,
I have never seen a shutter brake go out of adjustment - the only thing that might cause that is if it wasn't fitted correctly (i.e. loose screw, etc). I had a II body that leaked like a seive - it was due to a retrofit (1950's) flash socket. It caused wide bands on almost every frame, but once that was removed, all was well.
I think we need to see the evidence before making any sort of judgement.....
I have never seen a shutter brake go out of adjustment - the only thing that might cause that is if it wasn't fitted correctly (i.e. loose screw, etc). I had a II body that leaked like a seive - it was due to a retrofit (1950's) flash socket. It caused wide bands on almost every frame, but once that was removed, all was well.
I think we need to see the evidence before making any sort of judgement.....
gilpen123
Gil
Let's get the CSI to investigate.
kidblue
Established
Let's get C.S.I. working on this sucker... Examples attached.
As y'all can see, the leak is in the exact same spot every frame, just to the right. It is exhibited mostly during brighter conditions, and most photos in direct and slower-speed light are fine. It's either a leak caused by shooting in bright light or a higher shutter speed, right?
As y'all can see, the leak is in the exact same spot every frame, just to the right. It is exhibited mostly during brighter conditions, and most photos in direct and slower-speed light are fine. It's either a leak caused by shooting in bright light or a higher shutter speed, right?
Attachments
kidblue
Established
Also, I took some digital macro shots of the negatives against my diffused window - World's cheapest light box!
You can see the leak extend to both ends of the sprockets and obviously, that it is sporadic, but endemic.
One theory is that it isn't the shutter or speeds but rather a baffling issue? Thoughts?
You can see the leak extend to both ends of the sprockets and obviously, that it is sporadic, but endemic.
One theory is that it isn't the shutter or speeds but rather a baffling issue? Thoughts?
Attachments
cnphoto
Well-known
Should point out that this is my old IIIc, and I never experienced these leaks.
I have offered a 50/50 split for repair costs or a refund and return, but kidblue has become rather enamored with the little IIIc so hopefully it is a simple and repairable problem.
I mostly used the camera in lower light, never 'Sunny 16' territory, the only time I have to shoot is always evenings and nights.
I have offered a 50/50 split for repair costs or a refund and return, but kidblue has become rather enamored with the little IIIc so hopefully it is a simple and repairable problem.
I mostly used the camera in lower light, never 'Sunny 16' territory, the only time I have to shoot is always evenings and nights.
kidblue
Established
I didn't want to call out cnphoto without his permission - He has been the classiest, most helpful and easy-going guy I could have hoped to meet on this forum. Of course, both of his offers have been very gracious and generous, but I'm hoping we can split a repair as opposed to a return. I do quite enjoy this camera and it has good vibes.
It's safe to say with his experience and reputation, that either this was a preexisting condition that never reared its head due to being in low-light, or something that happened during shipping, which I guess is always possible...
It's safe to say with his experience and reputation, that either this was a preexisting condition that never reared its head due to being in low-light, or something that happened during shipping, which I guess is always possible...
John Shriver
Well-known
Could be a hitch in the travel of the closing curtain. Put white paper in the film plane, remove the lens, shoot the shutter a lot, and see if you see a bright white band. (Remember the image in inverted on the film.)
kidblue
Established
"Bright white band" meaning if I see the paper through the shutter?
cnphoto
Well-known
correct, if you see paper you have your problem.
john neal
fallor ergo sum
kidblue,
Does the effect on the neg vary depending on how long it was between winding on to the next frame? I had something like this in a II body - right across the width of the film, sproket holes and all. It turned out to be a light leak through a flash socket that was added to the body about 30 years after manufacture (probably explained why it had not been used much in the last 40 years).
If you try the paper test (above) and that looks OK, I would start looking for missing screws, or some other problem with the body, always assuming you have used different cassettes to eliminate light leaks there while outside the camera. One place I woiuld check is the slow speed knob (this is a IIIc, right?) I have a wartime IIIc that needs a small piece of shutter curtain fixed to the crate left of the aperture in the body (i.e. inside the body shell) or it too leaks light - something about the shape of the aperture in the body shell doesn't match the internal casting quite right.
If it's a post-war IIIC, could it possibly need the IIIf light baffle that's fitted diagonally down the inside of the body shell below the slow speed dial?
Incidentally, putting some bold diagonal stripes on the piece of paper will make shutter inaccuracy much more obvious
Does the effect on the neg vary depending on how long it was between winding on to the next frame? I had something like this in a II body - right across the width of the film, sproket holes and all. It turned out to be a light leak through a flash socket that was added to the body about 30 years after manufacture (probably explained why it had not been used much in the last 40 years).
If you try the paper test (above) and that looks OK, I would start looking for missing screws, or some other problem with the body, always assuming you have used different cassettes to eliminate light leaks there while outside the camera. One place I woiuld check is the slow speed knob (this is a IIIc, right?) I have a wartime IIIc that needs a small piece of shutter curtain fixed to the crate left of the aperture in the body (i.e. inside the body shell) or it too leaks light - something about the shape of the aperture in the body shell doesn't match the internal casting quite right.
If it's a post-war IIIC, could it possibly need the IIIf light baffle that's fitted diagonally down the inside of the body shell below the slow speed dial?
Incidentally, putting some bold diagonal stripes on the piece of paper will make shutter inaccuracy much more obvious
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kidblue
Established
John,
Funny enough, you're not the first person to mention the after-market flash socket. In terms of fit-and-finish, everything seems fine and the only thing I did beyond load film was adjust the rangefinder, but unscrewing those aspects should have no consequence on light-tightness, right?
So this shutter test works by inserting a small piece of paper and firing the shutter in rapid succession at a high speed? Is the idea that if I can "see" the shutter firing, something it hitching?
Funny enough, you're not the first person to mention the after-market flash socket. In terms of fit-and-finish, everything seems fine and the only thing I did beyond load film was adjust the rangefinder, but unscrewing those aspects should have no consequence on light-tightness, right?
So this shutter test works by inserting a small piece of paper and firing the shutter in rapid succession at a high speed? Is the idea that if I can "see" the shutter firing, something it hitching?
john neal
fallor ergo sum
kidblue,
I think the flash socket on the front plate was popular post-war and probably ruined many a good camera (sad). If there is no socket, is there any evidence that one has been removed in the past?
The idea of the paper in the film gate is to check for even exposure - at the slower speeds, you will have no trouble seeing the paper, but above 1/200 it gets tricky without some sort of aid. The diagonal stripes actually help in judging whether the curtains travel evenly, or if the 2nd curtain is fast or slow. If the 2nd curtain is sticking and causing the band of light, it will stick out like the b*lls on a bulldog (IYSWIM). Since the light goes to the edge of the film, I would be surprised if it is as simple as a shutter fault, and would expect something else - could be you have a film chip in the works that could have been dislodged by shipping and is momentarily stopping the 2nd curtain, but it would have to be getting a lot of light. More likely there is something amiss with the fit of some part somewhere, and the VF/RF windows shouldn't be at fault.
The alternative is to take the shell off and look through the shutter at a CRT while you fire it - there is a good description of what to expect in the FSU threads here. Of course, you may not want to go that far as you have the two offers from the seller.
I think the flash socket on the front plate was popular post-war and probably ruined many a good camera (sad). If there is no socket, is there any evidence that one has been removed in the past?
The idea of the paper in the film gate is to check for even exposure - at the slower speeds, you will have no trouble seeing the paper, but above 1/200 it gets tricky without some sort of aid. The diagonal stripes actually help in judging whether the curtains travel evenly, or if the 2nd curtain is fast or slow. If the 2nd curtain is sticking and causing the band of light, it will stick out like the b*lls on a bulldog (IYSWIM). Since the light goes to the edge of the film, I would be surprised if it is as simple as a shutter fault, and would expect something else - could be you have a film chip in the works that could have been dislodged by shipping and is momentarily stopping the 2nd curtain, but it would have to be getting a lot of light. More likely there is something amiss with the fit of some part somewhere, and the VF/RF windows shouldn't be at fault.
The alternative is to take the shell off and look through the shutter at a CRT while you fire it - there is a good description of what to expect in the FSU threads here. Of course, you may not want to go that far as you have the two offers from the seller.
kidblue
Established
Yeah, the seller has been so gracious and helpful and our repairman (Youxin) is unfortunately out of the picture on other business for the better part of a couple months.
I think the thing to do beyond trying to determine the issue myself (which I'm not exactly qualified to do) is to go to our local guy here in L.A. (Steve's Camera, classy) and let him determine the issue and whether or not the seller wants to split the cost of the repair or just do a return, which would be a shame.
I think the thing to do beyond trying to determine the issue myself (which I'm not exactly qualified to do) is to go to our local guy here in L.A. (Steve's Camera, classy) and let him determine the issue and whether or not the seller wants to split the cost of the repair or just do a return, which would be a shame.
kidblue
Established
With Youxin out of town, I took the IIIC to the local dude, Steve at Steve's Camera. Between him and his partner Bill, everyone in L.A. should be feel very confident. What a guy.
Of course, it was obvious that my IIIC had been well-loved and taken care of. It got an immediate clean bill of health with a once-over in terms of the shutter and integrity, but Steve quickly noticed a couple miniscule gaps near the top-plate and the vulcanite and around one or two screws. Tiny, tiny stuff I could never have noticed.
The theory would be that a sliver of light was getting its way through to the inside of the shutter (hence the sprockets) just enough to fog a portion of the frame as it was exposed. He didn't think it was a shutter issue. Thoughts from y'all?
He filled the bad spots and basically said that those could be the issue but we won't know until after I shoot another roll.
He was gracious enough to me (and the guy who I bought the camera from) to give it the once-over and fill those spots for free. I think he'll only charge me if he has to open the sucker up, so cross fingers that this next test roll comes back even!
N.
Of course, it was obvious that my IIIC had been well-loved and taken care of. It got an immediate clean bill of health with a once-over in terms of the shutter and integrity, but Steve quickly noticed a couple miniscule gaps near the top-plate and the vulcanite and around one or two screws. Tiny, tiny stuff I could never have noticed.
The theory would be that a sliver of light was getting its way through to the inside of the shutter (hence the sprockets) just enough to fog a portion of the frame as it was exposed. He didn't think it was a shutter issue. Thoughts from y'all?
He filled the bad spots and basically said that those could be the issue but we won't know until after I shoot another roll.
He was gracious enough to me (and the guy who I bought the camera from) to give it the once-over and fill those spots for free. I think he'll only charge me if he has to open the sucker up, so cross fingers that this next test roll comes back even!
N.
john neal
fallor ergo sum
Well, I hate to tell you "I told you so", so I won't 😉
kidblue
Established
I don't mind hearing it as long as it means we've got a light-tight camera!
But you told me what? 🙂
But you told me what? 🙂
