Leica III with flash

[photonios]

Hi all
I'm considering getting a leica III and I would like to ask the more experienced ones if these old models can work with a flash at all... For Leica IIIc can you find any compatible flash? or do I have to choose leica IIIf instead? Or are they so old anyway that no flash will work with them? (corroded contacts etc.)

 

[Mr_Flibble]

There are some ways to sync an flash to a Leica III, either through special Leica accessory baseplates, aftermarket parts, or (non-)factory upgrades. These are usually set to work bulb flash though.
Geiss had a kit that you put on the speed dial and in the accessory shoe. Where the turning knob would strike the contact on the shoe to fire the flash. I guess that could be timed to work with an electronic flash.

The Leica III/IIIa fastest sync speed is 1/20th.
The Leica IIIc has similar options, but the fastest sync speed is 1/30th.

The IIIf has a dedicated sychronization mechanism that can be easily adjusted to work with both the electronic flash or bulbs.

Leica also offered to upgrade some older cameras with the flash-sync mechanism of the IIIf. I have a IIIa-sync and a IIIc-sync upgraded in this fashion.

The non-factory upgrades on the older models can sometimes start to interfere with the proper operation of the shutter as parts start to age and grease starts to dry out. This is the main reason why some people have them removed during a restoration.

 

[Scrambler]

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Hi all
I'm considering getting a leica III and I would like to ask the more experienced ones if these old models can work with a flash at all... For Leica IIIc can you find any compatible flash? or do I have to choose leica IIIf instead? Or are they so old anyway that no flash will work with them? (corroded contacts etc.)

As above, no.

But the Geiss Synchron-Contact (spelling varies) works well in my experience. It has 2 settings for bulb and electronic flash and as per above attaches to the speed dial and the accessory shoe. It works quite nicely. There are different versions for IIIc and for earlier (marked IIIa) due to spacing differences on the integrated IIIc body versus earlier multi-part tops. The accessory shoe mount has a closure switch which is flicked and triggered by the speed-dial mounted unit. It will also flick (and trigger) when winding on.

As for shutter speeds, don't forget that with FLASH BULBS the early cameras are potentially synched for the entire shutter speed range - because the bulb flash can last longer than 1/20 of a second.

Edit: Any flash will work provided you have a cable for linking. The Geiss is still a cold shoe. I like using a 1950s Braun CeBe but it needs a wall socket.

 

[jusxusfanatic]

I use a vivitar 283 with mine. Really easy to manually sync both of them

 

[David Hughes]

... As for shutter speeds, don't forget that with FLASH BULBS the early cameras are potentially synched for the entire shutter speed range - because the bulb flash can last longer than 1/20 of a second.

Hi,

There were, roughly, two sorts of flash bulb in the good old days; one for focal plane shutters that had a long drawn out flash and so could be used at fairly high speed and the other for 'normal' shutters. The latter had to be used with slow speeds like 20th or so because at that speed the entire film was uncovered at one point in the blind's travel. It also had to be delayed a fraction to let the blinds open up.

In other words the flash duration and flash delay varied according to type; and then there's electronic flash to add to the fun.

Having typed that I thought I was bound to be wrong and so searched and found this:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_synchronization

Regards, David

 

[photonios]

I use a vivitar 283 with mine. Really easy to manually sync both of them

on which camera? leica IIIf?

 

[charjohncarter]

I use any electronic flash on my IIIf (red dial) with the dial set to 20, and the shutter at either 1/25 or 1/50.

 

[johannielscom]

Find yourself a Leica III that has been modified by the factory to a III-syn.

It offers flash synchronisation and you can even set the flash delay, although with modern electronic flashes there's no delay. With screw mount Leicas, no flash sync over 1/50th though so if you're not set on a Leica but more on flash photography you might want to change your mind.

Very often, these cameras get offered on eBay as a IIIf but they aren't. Sometimes they can be had cheap. As a matter of fact I found one on eBay that even stunned me, pricewise.

If interested, drop me a line for the auction number, photonios!

 

[photonios]

Thank you for your replies!
So is it better to get a leica IIIf ? I found one from eBay but how can you say that the flash sync is working? They are so old that it is likely the flash sync won't work... or no?

 

[Dralowid]

Thank you for your replies!
So is it better to get a leica IIIf ? I found one from eBay but how can you say that the flash sync is working? They are so old that it is likely the flash sync won't work... or no?

Or IIf...very nice, often a little cheaper.

 

[Scrambler]

Thank you for your replies!
So is it better to get a leica IIIf ? I found one from eBay but how can you say that the flash sync is working? They are so old that it is likely the flash sync won't work... or no?

Flash sync is a simple switch. It just works - much more simple than shutter timing. There is a higher likelihood of your old IIIf needing shutter timing adjustments, or replacement of the shutter curtains, than that the flash won't work well.

After market internal changes are less predictable. Buying a flash-modified IIIa or similar is a bigger gamble, but also a much cheaper option.

As mentioned above, my personal option is a IIIc (but equally a III or IIIa could be used) with a Geiss adapter. For electronic flash this is equally as effective as the IIIf, and cheaper. The IIIc is cheaper than the IIIf, the Geiss adapters turn up on ebay etc fairly frequently.

 

[Scrambler]

Hi,

There were, roughly, two sorts of flash bulb in the good old days; one for focal plane shutters that had a long drawn out flash and so could be used at fairly high speed and the other for 'normal' shutters. The latter had to be used with slow speeds like 20th or so because at that speed the entire film was uncovered at one point in the blind's travel. It also had to be delayed a fraction to let the blinds open up.

In other words the flash duration and flash delay varied according to type; and then there's electronic flash to add to the fun.

Having typed that I thought I was bound to be wrong and so searched and found this:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_synchronization

Regards, David

The Wikipedia reference is right, and you have only a tiny error, David - the bulb flash release is in advance of the electronic release. This is because it takes time for the bulb flash intensity to rise to a useful level.

The 1951 Leica Manual by Morgan and Lester has useful info in the 2 chapters on flash (bulb and electronic). In short, they recommend slightly higher speeds for the common short-duration bulbs (up to 1/60 for some types) because of the duration of the flash;recommend Focal Plane types in preference; and the electronic flash chapter mentions Leica factory triggers or the Geiss Synchron-Contact (though not by name).

There are a number of useful caveats - the older baseplate accessory factory synch systems are not necessarily electronic-flash compatible (can't cope with high voltage). They advise against using open bulb flash in colour photography. Perhaps more useful - blue coated bulbs should not be used at night due to colour cast issues.

 

[Luddite Frank]

Geiss Sync and Hakosyn attachments show-up frequently on e-bay, in the vicinity of $20 USD. Check the listing to be sure which model Leica it is for, the older Leicas have a smaller shutter-speeds dial.

Sometimes the contacts in an -f leica do get oxidized and do not work reliably.

Any mechanical camera that is more than 10-20 years out from its last service should have a CLA, and the sync contacts will get cleaned and checked at that time.

 

[summar]

I like using my IIIf with a Vivitar 283 using a diffuser/bouncer. The slow 1/30 synch speed captures ambient light nicely and the magnified rangefinder image makes it easy to focus in dim conditions.
Use the "2" setting on the synch delay dial for electronic flash.

 

[kingtimur]

I love my black Leica iii because it's the only Leica iii series that comes in black. But unfortunately, it does not have flash sync capabilities, unless you or Leica modified it.

I also love flash photography especially to shoot indoor. Thus my quest to find a viable solution to Leica iii flash problem begins.

I found a cheap Geiss sync attachment for a cheap price, bought it, and realise that it cannot be mounted to the Leica iii's shutter dial as the diameter of the shutter dial is smaller than the Geiss attachment. It turns out that there is another extension ring to put on the shutter dial so that it will fit the Geiss attachment. Unfortunately, this attachment does not come with the one that I bought. A quick search on eBay returns one result of a complete set of geiss contact including the shutter dial attachment with the price of a 100ft film.

Thus my quest continues.

couple days ago while surfing around eBay I found a listing for Leica iii flash sync attachment that mount on top of the shutter button. The price is reasonable and so I bought it.
Today the parcel arrives safely to me and I try it straight away and boom! my Leica iii has flash sync now!

The only quirk that it has is that you need to take off the flash sync cable every time you want to advance the film. However, I don't think this is a big deal as by using Leica iii is already a quirky thing to do, which is why I love it. The video below shows how the attachment is set up on the Leica.

https://youtu.be/Fckp2cFxFa0

Have a nice day. 🙂

 

[farlymac]

Now that is a nifty device.


PF

 

[madNbad]

A few years back, I was in a local shop and a customer had brought in a IIIc for consignment. It had an unusually shaped shutter speed dial and after some research found it was for the Leitz VACU flash. When the shutter was released the shutter speed dial would spin. The modified dial had a cam shape, this would engage a solenoid mounted on the camera. Here's a link for a better description:

http://gmpphoto.blogspot.com/2012/03/leitz-vacu.html

An even better description:

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158984

 

[Beemermark]

I like using my IIIf with a Vivitar 283 using a diffuser/bouncer. The slow 1/30 synch speed captures ambient light nicely and the magnified rangefinder image makes it easy to focus in dim conditions.
Use the "2" setting on the synch delay dial for electronic flash.

if you don't a lot of work arounds to use flash - buy a IIIF or IIIG.

 

[charjohncarter]

It is going to be hard to do fill flash with a III. Mine for some reason works at 1/50 (red dial IIIf), but in the attic of my mind I remember with the dial on 20 to use 1/25. I still don't see any difference with dial 20 and 1/50. You will have to use painfully slow speed film to use the flash out of doors.

This is what I used until I graduated to Paul Duff remotes from the sometimes reliable Cactus.

Untitled by John Carter, on Flickr

 

[MrRom92]

Keep it simple - if flash is important, get a iiif. An automatic flash unit and zone focusing makes for rapid-fire shooting with practically point and shoot ease of use


Shame so many on-camera flash units tend to completely dwarf the poor camera