Leica IIIC and a 5cm f/2 Summitar fell into my lap today...

[kzphoto]

Looks like there's a local woman looking to get rid of her grandfather's Leica IIIc and 5cm f/2 lens. She brought it into the photo lab see if anyone wanted to buy it and I said I would take a look.

Lens looks flawless, glass is immaculate on front and rear surfaces, and only a very very minor amount of hazing internally.

I don't know how to operate the camera so I don't wanna push too many buttons / turn too many wheels.

I don't really know much about these older Leicas. What should I look for to make sure it's worth some of my hard earned cash? What are these things going for these days?

 

[Brian Legge]

Easiest way to price these things is to look at completed auctions on ebay.

The body could be anywhere between $75-200 depending on condition. If you don't know how to tell yourself, I'd suggest seeing if either taking it by a camera repair store to be checked out or talking with a local RFFer.

The trickiest thing to assess will be the curtains as you can't look at them. Even if they look fine to the eye, there is a good chance they'll need to be replaced if the camera hasn't been serviced for 30+ years. If you can't shoot a test roll, I'd assume you need to set money aside for that.

On the other hand, checking the shutter speeds (wind the camera, change the shutter speed, fire the shutter - including slow shutter speeds) to listen for at least rough accuracy is pretty easy.

The rangefinder patch is also relatively easy to check for usability.

The range for the Summitar could be much greater - $100-500 depending on condition. Good user condition would probably be in the $200-350 range.

Biggest things to look for here are fog/haze and fine scratches (aka cleaning marks). These tend to can cut the cost to the lower end of the user range.

Again though, do your own research on this stuff. Don't take our word for it as we can't see or handle the specific items you're looking at.

In addition to ebay, www.antiquecameras.net may be worth checking out.

 

[kzphoto]

Brian,

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll shoot a test roll through the camera as soon as I can.

How can I test for bad shutter curtains? Will it be immediately obvious if there is something amiss?

There's extras too!

An orange filter in a black filter ring
a yellow filter with a chrome ring
an orange push-on filter for the VF
and a barn-door style lens hood for a Summitar f/1.5

 

[Brian Legge]

The main curtain problem is usually holes. This is a relatively dramatic example but walking around without a lens cap on can cause results like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hanards/5449265587/

Basically, light leads in through the holes and hits the film, resulting in consistently placed dots. The intensity of the dots will vary depending on how big the holes are, how long the film is exposed to the light and the intensity of the light.

If you aren't familiar with cloth curtains, you might want to do some google searches on it. Keywords like Leica curtain hole burn may give a useful starting point.

 

[batterytypehah!]

Really, unless you like to gamble, a test roll is in order.

The curtains on mine looked great, but the first roll showed light leaks even so. On very close inspection (which, remember, is not possible without disassembly), I found that the curtain material was great - but the stitches leaked light.

Put some fast color film in (loading tips are in the sticky at the top of this sub-forum), take some shots with different speed/f-stop combinations to give the same exposure. Make sure to point at bright lights as you're winding, take the lens off and wave some more at bright lights. Then get the roll developed at a 1-hour lab. You should be able to see any light leaks right on the negs, and the test exposures should be even.

As for testing the functions without film, a Barnack really isn't that complex. Always wind first, change shutter speed second, that's the big one. With the lens off, put the camera on B and look for a reflection from the pressure plate when the shutter is open. Keep the body at the same angle to the light and you can see that same reflection again at the other speeds. You should at least catch a glimpse of it until 200, maybe 500, though probably not 1000. Some people slip a colored piece of paper behind the shutter instead.

For testing the slow speeds, put the main dial on 30-1 and leave it there, then go through the slow speeds on the secondary dial. It's not too hard to tell by ear if 1/2 sec and 1 sec are anywhere close to correct. The others should sound successively faster, of course. T must stay open until you move the secondary dial off T again.

Sounds like a lot but it's worth it. Even better if your seller agrees to some kind of trial period, of course.

 

[kzphoto]

I have the camera for a few days so I plan on shooting a few rolls through it. I'll let everyone know how it goes. Thanks again for all the tips!

 

[Brian Legge]

But do be careful about what light you point it at - pointing it at the sun for example can burn a hole on the curtains.

 

[NaChase]

Considering that I too am an SC local, I would be interested in buying it should you decide to pass. Good luck though!

 

[rogerzilla]

Just look at the condition of the chrome and the front and rear elements of the lens. Then budget for a CLA of both camera and lens. Mechanically they can always be fixed provided no-one has been in there and actually broken anything.

 

[Roberto V.]

Fire the camera several times at every speed, especially 1 sec. As for the lens, Youxin Ye can give you a full CLA for a very low price. Just check that there's no fungus.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

As no one's mentioned it, I'll point you to http://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_iiic/leica_iiic.htm for a IIIc manual you can download.

Regards, David

PS When you get that film in it. Take a few pictures in quick succession and then one or two with an interval of 10 or 15 minutes between them. That ought to give you pictures without and with pin hole spots for comparison and will let you see what the full picture is like on the unblemished ones.

 

[Roger Hicks]

But do be careful about what light you point it at - pointing it at the sun for example can burn a hole on the curtains.

Dear Brian,

Yes, but it's hardly instantaneous, and by f/8 it's extremely unlikely to happen at all. I remark on this only in case the OP is made overly nervous about damaging the camera.

Cheers,

R.

 

[tjh]

Another check to make is to take some pictures of an even blue sky (if you can find one) at 1/1000 and 1/500 sec. If you notice uneven streaks horizontally across the image, you may have deterioration of the shutter curtain at the edge of the slit formed by the two curtains. I've had this sort of deterioration on two cameras, one IIIc and one IIIf. Don Goldberg told me that it appears that the rubber coating on the curtain deteriorates and pushes through the fabric at the slit edge, forming little bumps on the edge of the curtain. Since the slit is so narrow at high speeds the width of the slit is reduced enough by the bumps to affect exposure.

I'd plan on a CLA eventually and the possibility of shutter curtain replacement.

 

[Brian Legge]

Dear Brian,

Yes, but it's hardly instantaneous, and by f/8 it's extremely unlikely to happen at all. I remark on this only in case the OP is made overly nervous about damaging the camera.

Cheers,

R.

I agree. I was reacting primarily to the 'point it at something bright for a while' comment. The first thing I'd think of would be to point it at the sun for a few minutes. 🙂

This was part of the reason I suggested a google search about cloth curtains. It will likely be more informative than the short info we'd give here.

It isn't something to be totally paranoid about but it also is something I think all users should be aware of early on.

 

[batterytypehah!]

I agree. I was reacting primarily to the 'point it at something bright for a while' comment.

You're referring to my post, but that's not what I wrote. Here's the actual passage:

Make sure to point at bright lights as you're winding, take the lens off and wave some more at bright lights.

I don't think in the history of cloth shutters, anybody has burned a hole into one while winding, or with the lens off.

@ kzphoto: All you need to remember is to be careful if you tend to keep the lens at infinity without a lens cap.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I agree. I was reacting primarily to the 'point it at something bright for a while' comment. The first thing I'd think of would be to point it at the sun for a few minutes. 🙂

This was part of the reason I suggested a google search about cloth curtains. It will likely be more informative than the short info we'd give here.

It isn't something to be totally paranoid about but it also is something I think all users should be aware of early on.

Dear Brian,

Of course. It was for his benefit, not yours, and your point is indeed worth making at the start.

Cheers,

R.

 

[kzphoto]

Well it looks like I the camera works pretty well! It looks like the 1 sec and 1/2 second speeds are just a little slow with the rest of the speeds being close to accurate. I think the 1/1000 and 1/500 are a bit slow as well. Also, it looks like there aren't any holes in the shutter curtain to be found. Woo!

Upon closer inspection there appears to be just the slightest bit of haze or fungus behind the first rear element! I'll post some pictures of my test roll in a while.

Looks like the camera is functioning for the time being and will shoot in daylight, to say the least.

 

[kzphoto]

There's a web gallery up:

http://kzphoto.org/iic_web/

I forgot to remove the orange filter when shooting the first few exposures...:bang:

 

[MikeL]

Your gallery reminded me how I miss SC and stopping by Lulu's!

Looks good to me, my Standard probably hadn't been used for forty years, and it just needed some use and a little lubrication. It's still going strong.....

 

[Mudman]

the last few shots look like they have a light leak - 29 to 33.