Leica LTM Leica IIIC - Fake of the day

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
What makes this a fake exactly? Is it the markings? I've looked at the body and all signs point to it being a IIIc body, it's even a single moulded piece instead of separate panels.

So could someone point out the indicators for it being a fake? it would be nice to know for next time.
 
Hi,
this ,I say exactly,this camera was published with 4 photos on page 10 of Classic Camera n.57 feb.2006 as an example of what you can find on Ebay auction (it was sold even years ago).
They said:
1-before n.387xxx no gray cameras were done.

2-From Leica papers this camera,a chrome one,was sent (deliv.26902) on 30.5.1941 to Moloff & Rosen,Leica dealer in Bulgary (not to the Wehrmacht!!!)

3-This Elmar (not engraved) was sent on 12.9.41 to Knechtsberger of Pressburg (del.27165),they were cheese sellers (!!!)

Apart from this there were never such engravings,if you see a real one (I have photos) you see the differences.
However starting from wrong gray paint, I've a n. of 9 wrong parts from the photos,may be more if I can see better the camera .
I don't want to suggest more things to the fakers,no need to tell as ,I repeat,this is a well know and published fake.

Many compliments to (says the seller)... the Leica repairman Will van Manen here in the Netherlands!! He has over 35 years of LEICA/LEITZ experience!!...who said (if it's true) that it's a genuine one.

BEWARE GUYS!!!

Cheers.
 
That's a good looking IIIc. There's no way that I'd kick Carla Bruni out of bed for only wearing that camera and lens.
 
I had posted a thread about this earlier, but too many smartass remarks and link comments about the thread and I took it down, trying to share constructive and intelligent conversation about these cameras is impossible anymore over the open Internet, and so I no longer post anything live about what`s going on, over the net, I just answer serious professional emails now.

It`s a shame some people will get burnt, but if you have the money to spend on these cameras, it`s best to write me and ask about it, before you buy, or contact Jim Lager, we are the two most active people on the net researching anything Leica from WW2.

......I`ve been in contact with this Dutch seller, if he`s sincere the auction will be down in the next 12 hours, if not, then I know that it`s a Link, Crooked Sale......

There`s a lot of A**holes out there in the Leica World, you have to be careful.

Tom
 
Tom, would this Leica be a standard IIIc just resprayed and with a red curtain added? or are there mechanical changes aswell? A IIIc constructed from various other Leica copies?
 
I agree 100% Tom!!
We wait and see,may be the seller doesn't know the true,even if he said that

... My repair man told me that by looking thru a magnifier at the engravings and studying the engravings of compareable cameras that the engravings are original.
I also studied many books and lots of pictures before concluding this. The placing, the way it was done, the size, the thickness, the depth, the shape do exactly match with similar wartime camera engravings that are known. Also the camera was an original grey painted wartime camera, wich came to light during the CLA.

I have no words.

However,ask always to Tom or Jim before you buy!


Cheers
 
This camera was at one time somewhat unique...........

I have all the important information back from Jim and it started life as a stink normal Leica IIIC in satin chrome with a Red Curtain and a Summitar lens, this combo was delivered to the Leitz Rep in Sofia, Bulgaria May 1941.......

Somewhere along the way the Summitar was lost :(

The 50 Elmar lens is also "strangely enough" also delivered to an Eastern OCCUPIED country, to Budapest, Hungary Oct. 1941.........

These two original deliveries might even be a clue to where the FAKES are being made? ~ but, personally it looks like the work of an American who was living in England and faking cameras/lenses a short while ago.....one of his cameras sold for over $6,000+ and it was a worthless fake. *Remember that Grey Paint DANA camera from England?* This camera`s paint is identical!!!!!!

Really sad, here`s two very interesting original delivered Leitz items, forever DESTROYED and their value is reduced to 0. :(

Tom
 
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Would it be possible to take that IIIc back to it's original condition? Strip the paint and remove the swastika markings?
 
Since, the chrome and nickel plating have been removed, my guess is that you'd have to repaint it and forgo bringing it back to its original condition.
 
Impossible

I bet the modern day Leica factory could`nt even reproduce that 1940/42 only "satin chome" it`s beautiful, looks almost white in certain light....

Tom

PS: This camera`s good for parts only....maybe only about $200, the curtains are most certainly fake as is the case, BUT the Elmar can be saved with a sacrificed mount from another 1940/41 lens.
 
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That's a shame. It doesn't really make any sense as to why anyone would bother doing this. Considering it was an original Leica IIIc with a red curtain, it was valuable enough.

Although I guess if it has been passed off for this long for thousands of dollars each time, whoever faked it to begin with has already made their money's worth.
 
I have been in contact with the seller in Holland, and he did the honorable right thing and added to the auction that the camera is 100% fake/copie etc.

This IS from the guy in England who`s Father was a Photographer in the States etc. All equipment was 100% fake, junk and MADE to deceive people, it more than likely dates from the late 1980`s/ early 90`s when the WW2 stuff was in it`s first BIG MONEY craze in the collectors scene.
*Many collectors were deceived back then over some cameras, and it was`nt just Military cameras, Luxus Leica`s and early Elmax fakes, even brought down auction house rules, and even changed some auctions selling techniques altogether.*

Tom
 
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The auction states that the camera was overhauled by Will van Manen.

I've done business with Will a few times, I don't think he would want to be associated with an auction that tries to pass off a fake camera as a real one (even if the text has now been updated).

It IS a real Leica of course, not a FED or Zorki, so I'd expect him to work on it, but also that he would have some comments on the authenticity of it...

Maybe I'll have to e-mail him and ask what he thinks of this.
 
A nice looking camera anyway...

I mean a nice looking camera to USE. I don´t really get the collectors extasis for these ones, I´d understand the camera Rommel or ay other historical reference might have use deserves to rest in a museum, but weren´t these camera were made to take shots?
 
Indeed. I wouldn't mind buying the camera as a user for a normal IIIc price. And engrave "Fake" on it somewhere so this didn't happen again.

Sadly, someone is likely going to buy it and try to sell it as legit again.
 
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