Leica LTM Leica IIIf, almost blank exposures

[Toni Nikkanen]

Hi all,

I've been using my Leica IIIf RD for about 3 months now and I've shot 6 rolls of film with it, the first 5 being successful. At the end of roll 5, I tried to use flash with it and for that reason, I moved the syncronization dial from the position 10 it was in when I got the camera, to position 20. I read from "somewhere" it would be the setting to use for electronic flash with my model - and I did get proper flash exposures.

I left the sync dial there and shot roll 6, I believe almost all, if not all, frames were shot in low light using the slow speeds 1/10 - 1/25 using ISO400 film and f1.5 lens. Now, I just developed the roll together with another one from another camera. The roll shot with the other camera turned out great, the roll shot with the IIIf is almost completely blank. There's only a hint of exposure here and there! I wonder if caused this by messing with the sync speed dial, or is there perhaps something wrong with the camera itself? I've shot some more frames with it since then and observed the shutter movement, which appears to be moving properly as far as I can tell.

I've attached a picture of the negative here. As you can see whenever there is exposure, it's always just this thin band while the rest of the frame is blank.

Thanks for any help!

 

[FrankS]

The changed flash sync delay dial does not have an effect on non-flash exposures. If your roll number 6 is under-exposed then either the lens aperture was closed down from f1.5, or the camera shutter speed was faster than 1/30sec. (or the developing was incorrect)

 

[Toni Nikkanen]

What is bugging me is that the frames are not "uniformly" under-exposed; there's these thin strips of well-exposed area surrounded by total non-exposure. That's why I am suspecting some kind of shutter effect..

 

[FrankS]

Try removing the lens and watch the shutter curtains as you fire the camera at various speeds, especially the slower ones.

 

[JohnTF]

I do not see the edge printing on your scan, if there is no edge printing, e.g. Kodak and the numbers, then it is the processing for sure. Rare, since the C41 process commercially is almost fool proof.


X sync requires the frame be fully open, not a moving slit, which should occur at all the slower speeds.


Regards, John

 

[Toni Nikkanen]

The edge markings show up great. As I wrote, I processed the film myself along with another roll from another camera, which looks great..

 

[johannielscom]

Seems to me there's too little info now to figure this one out.

You probably need to shoot a proper test roll, several shutter speed and aperture combinations, and document them.

Was the one C41 from another batch from the other, by any chance?

 

[JohnTF]

The edge markings show up great. As I wrote, I processed the film myself along with another roll from another camera, which looks great..

Only thing left is shutter, you might shoot a short roll going through the speeds and see what you get, after you make a physical inspection of your shutter.

Regards, John

ps-- I sometimes shot some older film at the processors, and got develop only done, as I shot snaps of the guys doing the processing, they never charged me, and it is quick. ;-)
Of course they printed the shots of them.

 

[Toni Nikkanen]

Yeah I guess I just have to shoot a test roll now so I will do it, with all possible shutter speeds.

The C41 was the same. I developed both rolls in the same tank at the same time..

 

[Toni Nikkanen]

I will yet add that at least some of those shots were at the 1/25s speed that I've used a lot previously. I might not have used 1/10 earlier..
But anyway, I will shoot the test roll with all speeds and see what happens.

AND.. my memory comes to me in bits and pieces but: the last 4-5 pics were taken in bright sunlight with shutter speeds 1/250 - 1/500. These for certain have worked before. Totally weird.

 

[Eric L]

This has happened to me once before with my IIIf a few weeks ago. 36 exposure roll... frames 5 to 12 or so were blank. Only thin strip to the side of each frame was exposed. And I wasn't shooting slow speeds like you. I suspect shutter curtain problem. Haven't taken it in to be looked at yet. So far I haven't had that problem since.

 

[Toni Nikkanen]

Well, the problem is going to be solved, I contacted shop I bought it from with warranty. I'll be able to send it in for repair. Now I'm tempted to get a cheap Zorki to house my M39 lenses while I wait for the Leica to make the round-trip 😉 And also as a "bang-around" camera when I want to spare the more expensive ones from risk of damage..

 

[Rob-F]

The film looks clear up around the upper sprocket holes. Makes me think there may not have been enough developer in the tank? Hard to tell on the monitor, though.

I would slip a white card in between the film rails and pressure plate, to make it easy to judge how well the shutter is opening as viewed from the front with the lens removed.

 

[Toni Nikkanen]

I wish I had taken a better picture of the negative. There is nothing wrong with the development, edge markings are great etc. Please stop concentrating on that aspect everyone 🙂

The camera is already having a full shutter service in England - and they were of the opinion that this is a "tapering" problem with the shutter that is one possible way for the Leica IIIf shutter to start malfunctioning.

 

[Toni Nikkanen]

An update

An update

I got my camera back from repair on Friday and it is now working great. Better than before; the film advance is smoother even though it felt great already and even a piece of missing vulcanite was replaced in the body covering. And most importantly the shutter is working. I've already shot two rolls that look really good with it.

Along with the camera I got a note reminding me that do not load film into the camera if the rewind level is not in the A position - trying to load film while the lever in the R position might affect the shutter. I will make it a point to keep that in mind.

 

[tennis-joe]

If you have a flash sync. below the shutter speed dial, it should be set at 2 for electronic Flash. I read that in the directions. The other flash settings are for different flash bulbs.
Joe

 

[newspaperguy]

Hi Toni. Can this old Leica user offer a personal note?

Forget using strobe/electronic flash with any of the IIIf models.

Their added-on sync system was a joke to begin with...
yes, I was using them back in the 1950s*, and they were
not too great with flash bulbs either.

Just enjoy it as the candid camera it is, and move to faster
films or stick to daylight, and don't forget to have fun.

*PS - I used my IIIf BD yesterday, but mitout der flash..

 

[newspaperguy]

Forgot to mention... if you haven't explored our host's Leica pages,
you're in for a treat: http://cameraquest.com/ltmcam.htm

 

[Toni Nikkanen]

I agree...

I agree...

Hey I agree, the flash system is such a joke on the old screw mount leicas, I do not have any plans to use it regularly and maybe not ever. If I really have to use flash i'll use my more modern cameras (like Bronica S2A or Leica M6 🙂