Leica IIIf shutter jammed - any advice?

[Coldkennels]

I just picked up my trusty IIIf to find the shutter is completely jammed. I'd finished a roll and emptied it a week ago, at which point it was fine. But now the shutter is stuck in the closed position; trying to advance the mechanism (using the actual winder knob or by twisting the shutter speed dial to act on the shutter directly) gives me maybe ten degrees of rotation before I can feel something stop the shutter dead in its tracks.

I can't see any obvious damage to the shutter (and, in a potentially ill-advised experiment, I gingerly pushed the first shutter curtain slightly along the path through the lens mount, and can't feel anything stopping the curtain itself), so I'm guessing that something is fouling up the mechanism underneath the shutter speed dial.

Does anyone with some familiarity with the IIIf's shutter mechanism have any thoughts as to what the problem could be? Is it worth me popping off the body shell and having a look?

EDIT: I just picked it up again and - would you believe it - the damn thing is back to working normally. No idea why. But, as an old friend of mine used to say, "beware the self fix!", so if anyone has any insight, it'd still be appreciated!

 

[xayraa33]

I just picked up my trusty IIIf to find the shutter is completely jammed. I'd finished a roll and emptied it a week ago, at which point it was fine. But now the shutter is stuck in the closed position; trying to advance the mechanism (using the actual winder knob or by twisting the shutter speed dial to act on the shutter directly) gives me maybe ten degrees of rotation before I can feel something stop the shutter dead in its tracks.

I can't see any obvious damage to the shutter (and, in a potentially ill-advised experiment, I gingerly pushed the first shutter curtain slightly along the path through the lens mount, and can't feel anything stopping the curtain itself), so I'm guessing that something is fouling up the mechanism underneath the shutter speed dial.

Does anyone with some familiarity with the IIIf's shutter mechanism have any thoughts as to what the problem could be? Is it worth me popping off the body shell and having a look?

Make sure sprocket clutch lever is on A and release the shutter in case it was pre-cocked and shutter dial is on the speed setting and not in between settings..check for pieces of film in the shutter curtain tracks that could be jamming the works first off. Also move the slow speed dial a few times and set it to its highest shutter speed.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

I just picked up my trusty IIIf to find the shutter is completely jammed. I'd finished a roll and emptied it a week ago, at which point it was fine. But now the shutter is stuck in the closed position; trying to advance the mechanism (using the actual winder knob or by twisting the shutter speed dial to act on the shutter directly) gives me maybe ten degrees of rotation before I can feel something stop the shutter dead in its tracks.

I can't see any obvious damage to the shutter (and, in a potentially ill-advised experiment, I gingerly pushed the first shutter curtain slightly along the path through the lens mount, and can't feel anything stopping the curtain itself), so I'm guessing that something is fouling up the mechanism underneath the shutter speed dial.

Does anyone with some familiarity with the IIIf's shutter mechanism have any thoughts as to what the problem could be? Is it worth me popping off the body shell and having a look?

EDIT: I just picked it up again and - would you believe it - the damn thing is back to working normally. No idea why. But, as an old friend of mine used to say, "beware the self fix!", so if anyone has any insight, it'd still be appreciated!

Given that your previous interaction with the camera had been to activate the wind lock lever to rewind your roll, my best guess is that the wind lock hadn't returned the take up shaft to the correct location. My own IIIf RD will let me rotate the wind knob freely with the lever to Rewind. (Could be handy for reloading a partly shot roll, I have to try that). But a friends IIIF RD ST, when set to Rewind, locks the knob and as far as I could see, after much examination this seemed not to be a malfunction.

If the cam activated by the wind lever is bent it can make it harder than usual to achieve a fully engaged wind sprocket. In which case even if the selector lever was only slightly off its stop, it might have been enough ti lock the wind.

Without seeing the camera these are only possibilities, so I can't be definitive, sorry. If it is a one off I'd let it slide, for now. Ensure the lever is moved as far as it can travel and keep on shooting with it. If it re-occurs I think further investigation is warranted.
Cheers,
Brett

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Duplicate post.

 

[Coldkennels]

Yeah, I think you guys are right in suggesting something is going on with the rewind lever. For the record, this is a black dial, and with it set to rewind, it'll spin the wind knob freely. I don't see how moving the lock lever back to A should allow anything to get stuck in the wrong place, though; normally the wind knob just spins freely if it's not in the right place until it hits the right part of the mechanism to activate the shutter again, and I'm pretty sure every Barnack I've used with the rewind lock lever system (two IIIfs, a IIIg and a Zorki) behaves the same way.

At any rate, it's still behaving nicely the following morning, and I've locked the shutter open on T and can't see any obvious debris in the shutter's path, so here's hoping it doesn't reoccur.

Very weird.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Yeah, I think you guys are right in suggesting something is going on with the rewind lever. For the record, this is a black dial, and with it set to rewind, it'll spin the wind knob freely. I don't see how moving the lock lever back to A should allow anything to get stuck in the wrong place, though; normally the wind knob just spins freely if it's not in the right place until it hits the right part of the mechanism to activate the shutter again, and I'm pretty sure every Barnack I've used with the rewind lock lever system (two IIIfs, a IIIg and a Zorki) behaves the same way.

At any rate, it's still behaving nicely the following morning, and I've locked the shutter open on T and can't see any obvious debris in the shutter's path, so here's hoping it doesn't reoccur.

Very weird.

I make no pretence at being any kind of expert in Leica repair. Having only done one Reid & Sigrist and two IIIfs. My red dial IIIf behaves as you've described. I had only mentioned the behaviour of another IIIf because I quickly noticed it differed from my own.

I probably do not have any photos of the relevant location in the mechanism, however I was initially concerned about the operation of the example that locked the wind knob when activating the rewind release. As a result I spent some time carefully examining it. I found that the cylindrical actuating cam with a curved ramp on its end, that disengages the wind sprocket, when it is set to the rewind position, has a claw machined into it, which jams a gear in the wind train. Thus—I have no doubt this is a design function. The example concerned is a 1955 IIIf Red Dial Self Timer spec.

In the absence of further experience with the screw mount Leicas, I can only assume later versions functioned differently. Sorry if I led you down the garden path; my suggestions were made in good faith...

 

[Coldkennels]

Oh, don't worry about it. Sorry if I sounded hostile in any way - merely expressing confusion! I still think you're on the right track, but without it happening again and taking the body shell off before it self-corrects, I'm not entirely sure what could be getting tangled together in such a way.

I've dismantled and repaired a bunch of Soviet LTMs, so I can picture the Leica II mechanism in my head quite well (assuming that a Zorki 1 is a direct like-for-like clone in that regard). I'm just not sure how things had changed by the time the IIIf came around.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Oh, don't worry about it. Sorry if I sounded hostile in any way - merely expressing confusion! I still think you're on the right track, but without it happening again and taking the body shell off before it self-corrects, I'm not entirely sure what could be getting tangled together in such a way.

I've dismantled and repaired a bunch of Soviet LTMs, so I can picture the Leica II mechanism in my head quite well (assuming that a Zorki 1 is a direct like-for-like clone in that regard). I'm just not sure how things had changed by the time the IIIf came around.

No, no, not at all. I'm in the same boat. So much still to learn about the screw mounts. 😉

 

[farlymac]

Oh, don't worry about it. Sorry if I sounded hostile in any way - merely expressing confusion! I still think you're on the right track, but without it happening again and taking the body shell off before it self-corrects, I'm not entirely sure what could be getting tangled together in such a way.

I've dismantled and repaired a bunch of Soviet LTMs, so I can picture the Leica II mechanism in my head quite well (assuming that a Zorki 1 is a direct like-for-like clone in that regard). I'm just not sure how things had changed by the time the IIIf came around.

There will definitely be some differences between the Zorkis and the IIIf, mainly because Leica made some improvements in the shutter after the Black Dial version. Add in the newer body introduced with the IIIc and there are bound to be other differences from the Zorki-1.

PF

 

[Retro-Grouch]

Not too familiar with the innards, myself, but my non-expert guess is a film chip somewhere. Move the camera, the chip shifts position, and voila, fixed. Sort of, with the provision the chip doesn't shift again.
Years ago, my service guy opened up an old Leica in my presence. It was a shock to see how many chips had accumulated over the years, each one a problem waiting to happen. According to him, the peculiar film trimming and loading gymnastics necessary with these cameras made them more prone to the chip problem.

 

[Rob-F]

+1. From personal experience, film chips should be a major suspect in cases such as this. I doubt the IIIf was fixed by magic! A chip may well be lurking . . . Murphy's law, you know.