Leica IIIf Test after dubious shutter repair

[farlymac]

I sent my IIIf off for a shutter replacement back in 2020 as I have yet learned how to do the work myself. Unfortunately, I chose someone who claimed to be factory trained (I later learned he worked in the binocular division), was quite proud of himself to bad mouth DAG, and tried to tell me I didn't know how the flash sync worked on my camera (which came up because I had tested it before sending the camera off for repair, and when it came back the sync no longer worked). Needless to say, I will never use his services again.

So, this test roll of Kodak Gold 200 is from July 13, 2020. There were some shutter issues on frames 2-7 which magically cleared up in time for the NOOKY-HEESUM test. Most of the frames were over exposed, so that might be another issue of the lousy repair.

A Revolting Predicament by P F McFarland, on Flickr

The close-up test with the NOOKY-HEESUM came out good.
With just the Summitar 50/2

Lichen Patch Up Close by P F McFarland, on Flickr

And with the NOOKY-HEESUM

Lichen Patch Even Closer by P F McFarland, on Flickr


You can see all the photos from the test roll at Leica IIIf Camera Test After Shutter Replacement

PF

 

[chuckroast]

Sorry for your troubles. I got excellent results from an overhaul on my IIIf by YYE and recommend him highly.

 

[fdu]

Hi, It looks like exactly the same issue I see my IIIf recently serviced by one of DAG's colleague/ competitor ... I am still testing it and thinking about next step.

Did you record the speed used on each frames ? on mine, 1/1000 and 1/500 show the problem, things get better at 1/200.
Shooting vertically seems to help.

 

[dxq.canada]

Looks like shutter capping ... second curtain catching up to the first.
Spring load needs to be adjusted.

 

[farlymac]

Hi, It looks like exactly the same issue I see my IIIf recently serviced by one of DAG's colleague/ competitor ... I am still testing it and thinking about next step.

Did you record the speed used on each frames ? on mine, 1/1000 and 1/500 show the problem, things get better at 1/200.
Shooting vertically seems to help.

Very heavy capping on the few frames that it happened, and they were all in a row for six frames, then it fixed itself. Except all my exposures were off by at least a stop. Don't know if I might have used the wrong shutter speed (I shoot mainly using Sunny-16, and I could have set the camera up for 100 ISO), or if the actual speeds are off. It's hard to figure out on a Barnack body. One needs the right equipment to accurately judge shutter speeds on a III series camera. Plus, I would like the flash sync to work again just in case the situation for using it comes up. I hate to think I wasted all that money on a Metz flash with the Leica III PC cord adapter.

PF

 

[farlymac]

Sorry for your troubles. I got excellent results from an overhaul on my IIIf by YYE and recommend him highly.

I'm thinking of sending it to Don instead.

PF

 

[chuckroast]

I'm thinking of sending it to Don instead.

PF

He also does great work. Either would serve you well.

 

[Coldkennels]

I'm inclined to say it's a lubrication issue, not a tension one.

I took a IIIf to Aperture in London back in 2015 or 2016. They got it "working" again, but not only was it a LOT louder, within a year or so it needed another service. Needless to say, I took it somewhere else that time, and it ran much better - until a liquid electrical tape "patch" repair done by a previous owner failed in 2022, necessitating a brand new shutter.

I think Aperture had basically just tightened up the tension on the shutter to make it power through dried-up old lubricant (hence the increased shutter noise), and as that old grease continued to age, it just became unusable again. If your guy did the same thing, it'd make some sense that with some "exercise", things started moving again as the old lubricant eased up a bit.

 

[GMOG]

I'm inclined to say it's a lubrication issue, not a tension one.

I agree with this. A clean and properly lubed shutter system should work with relatively light tensions. I also wonder if the fellow who serviced farlymac's IIIf used a shutter tester to check and adjust the speeds.

So far I've serviced a few of my own thread mount Leicas, plus a Canon IIF, including replacing the curtains. A basic service without curtains is a lot of work that requires a few special tools, especially if the curtains and rollers are removed from the crate, which IMHO is the only way to really clean the old lubes out of the rollers. I wonder how many service providers actually go that far given the low prices they charge.

Farlymac, If I were in your shoes I'd go with DAG or Sherry K.

 

[farlymac]

I'm inclined to say it's a lubrication issue, not a tension one.

I took a IIIf to Aperture in London back in 2015 or 2016. They got it "working" again, but not only was it a LOT louder, within a year or so it needed another service. Needless to say, I took it somewhere else that time, and it ran much better - until a liquid electrical tape "patch" repair done by a previous owner failed in 2022, necessitating a brand new shutter.

I think Aperture had basically just tightened up the tension on the shutter to make it power through dried-up old lubricant (hence the increased shutter noise), and as that old grease continued to age, it just became unusable again. If your guy did the same thing, it'd make some sense that with some "exercise", things started moving again as the old lubricant eased up a bit.

Ulrich Fuchs replaced the shutter curtains since they were all cracked and leaky. The camera sounds better than before I sent it in so I'm assuming he lubed it while it was being reassembled which was part of his quote for the curtain replacement. I'm thinking that it was a piece of curtain debris left over from the repair that may have caused the capping as it only occurred on those six adjacent images and then cured itself. However, the consistent over exposures suggest he did not do a good job of adjusting the speeds.

PF

 

[fdu]

Mine is well lubed as it just came back from service ($200, 7 months lead time) ... I don't know how shutter capping can be tested but repairman confirmed that he doesn't run a film test before sending camera back. I love this small camera, will most likely bite to the bullet and send it to DAG (should have sent it to him directly, his quote was $500).

 

[jszokoli]

If you'r concerned about turn around time I would go YYE.

BTW, it kind of bothers me when someone has an issue like this and won't identify the person or company. It like saying I was assaulted by some one and not be willing to identify the person. They are out there waiting for their next victim. I understand that you would be concern about denigrating someone but if you give a fair and accurate account of the issue and the steps taken or not taken by the company or individual others can make a judgment...

For instance I had a repair done by YYE, and there was issue. But his response and actions to correct the issue were prompt and professional. In some ways you can tell more about someone when there is an issue.

Joe

 

[chuckroast]

Mine is well lubed as it just came back from service ($200, 7 months lead time) ... I don't know how shutter capping can be tested but repairman confirmed that he doesn't run a film test before sending camera back. I love this small camera, will most likely bite to the bullet and send it to DAG (should have sent it to him directly, his quote was $500).

YYE did my IIIf in less than a week total turnaround time for around $260 and that included his expediting fee. The camera came back flawless.

 

[farlymac]

If you'r concerned about turn around time I would go YYE.

BTW, it kind of bothers me when someone has an issue like this and won't identify the person or company. It like saying I was assaulted by some one and not be willing to identify the person. They are out there waiting for their next victim. I understand that you would be concern about denigrating someone but if you give a fair and accurate account of the issue and the steps taken or not taken by the company or individual others can make a judgment...

For instance I had a repair done by YYE, and there was issue. But his response and actions to correct the issue were prompt and professional. In some ways you can tell more about someone when there is an issue.

Joe

I believe I did identify the repairperson (Ulrich Fuchs) in my original thread three years ago but seeing as he no longer is advertising his repair services on eBay (2foxesfuchs) I thought I'd cut him some slack in this posting. However, you are right in some respects as Herr Fuchs may still be doing repairs, but through other ad channels.

I contacted Herr Fuchs after getting the camera back from the shutter replacement and realizing the flash sync no longer functioned. Herr Fuchs actually called me and told me I didn't know how to set the delay switch which is total BS as I have the manuals (original and supplemental) showing how it is done and tested the camera before I sent it off for repair. I paid the postage to send it back to him, and he didn't even have the decency to unwrap it before shipping it back, so I know he didn't do anything to test it out. When I called him about the continuing issue, he again accused me of not knowing what I was doing and then out of the blue started bad mouthing Don Goldberg, calling him a hack. You can interpret that kind of behavior any way you like, but I took it as a slur to Don's good name. I then ceased all communications with Herr Fuchs.

I really don't like mentioning his name because it brings up so many feelings that I'd rather not experience.

PF

 

[qqphotos]

If you'r concerned about turn around time I would go YYE.

BTW, it kind of bothers me when someone has an issue like this and won't identify the person or company. It like saying I was assaulted by some one and not be willing to identify the person. They are out there waiting for their next victim. I understand that you would be concern about denigrating someone but if you give a fair and accurate account of the issue and the steps taken or not taken by the company or individual others can make a judgment...

For instance I had a repair done by YYE, and there was issue. But his response and actions to correct the issue were prompt and professional. In some ways you can tell more about someone when there is an issue.

Joe

I find it frustrating too, but I've found that there are harsh and unfriendly responses to any mention of poor work done by the big names. I can appreciate that they are in large part the ones keeping our cameras alive these days, but they are not infallible, and it is not an attack or libel to say I've had unsatisfactory work done and not been able to have it made right. I just don't have the energy or the taste for getting yelled at online anymore, so I keep it to myself unless I'm asked. People get mean.

 

[fdu]

If you'r concerned about turn around time I would go YYE.

BTW, it kind of bothers me when someone has an issue like this and won't identify the person or company. It like saying I was assaulted by some one and not be willing to identify the person. They are out there waiting for their next victim. I understand that you would be concern about denigrating someone but if you give a fair and accurate account of the issue and the steps taken or not taken by the company or individual others can make a judgment...

For instance I had a repair done by YYE, and there was issue. But his response and actions to correct the issue were prompt and professional. In some ways you can tell more about someone when there is an issue.

Joe

(a new post about shutter capping on a M4 reminded of this discussion)

Well, it was serviced by YYE ... who told me - $200 and 7 months later - that the camera was "well used" and I should get one in better condition ...

I am very happy to report than my IIIf came back from DAG last June: shutter capping issue is gone !

 

[chuckroast]

(a new post about shutter capping on a M4 reminded of this discussion)

Well, it was serviced by YYE ... who told me - $200 and 7 months later - that the camera was "well used" and I should get one in better condition ...

I am very happy to report than my IIIf came back from DAG last June: shutter capping issue is gone !

I have found YYE to be quite reasonable to deal with. Did you go back and express your dissatisfaction to get him to resolve the matter? Anyone can make a mistake, but how they stand behind their work is the real test of the vendor.

 

[fdu]

Of course I did. I even sent him the pic I showed above. His answer didn't convince me he could fix the problem or knew how to fix it. No apologies from him but he gave my coordinate to a used camera salesman 🙂

 

[chuckroast]

Of course I did. I even sent him the pic I showed above. His answer didn't convince me he could fix the problem or knew how to fix it. No apologies from him but he gave my coordinate to a used camera salesman 🙂

And he still charged you? That's disappointing to hear.

 

[TenEleven]

I'm inclined to say it's a lubrication issue, not a tension one.

I took a IIIf to Aperture in London back in 2015 or 2016. They got it "working" again, but not only was it a LOT louder, within a year or so it needed another service. Needless to say, I took it somewhere else that time, and it ran much better - until a liquid electrical tape "patch" repair done by a previous owner failed in 2022, necessitating a brand new shutter.

I think Aperture had basically just tightened up the tension on the shutter to make it power through dried-up old lubricant (hence the increased shutter noise), and as that old grease continued to age, it just became unusable again. If your guy did the same thing, it'd make some sense that with some "exercise", things started moving again as the old lubricant eased up a bit.

This is sadly, especially now that the information is everywhere on the internet a scourge on almost all cameras. Be it Leicas, Contaxes or Canons or other rangefinders.

Jack up the curtain tension to max and sell it on or take whatever money for the "repair". You now have a loud, intermittent ticking time-bomb that also likely will feel rough to wind/use.

What follows is various posts in claiming that these cameras are "unreliable" - when they really aren't. All of these golden age rangefinders are very reliable in my experience. But they absolutely do need proper service with a clean-out, relube and proper setting up of tensions and timings.