Leica item prices up again!

Ken F. said:
Hi There,

Leica's recent price increases are sure making the grey market items look attractive.
I just purchased a chrome MP from Tony Rose at Popflash Photo last week, not only was he a pleasure deal with, his prices are realistic!

Cheers,
kf
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Where do those grey market items come from? Even at $1.19 for a Euro a M7 for $3500 looks cheap from germany.
 
I think they come from Leica HK. Who probably gets their items from Leica directly. I bought a 35 lux asph chrome from popflash, it was perfect.
 
I'm having a hard time understanding why this should be a surprise. You have a company who produces a high end luxury product. The demand for the product drops, but costs do not. Result? - financial problems. The company can only reduce expenses so far. The only way out is to increase prices and try to put together a digital luxury item to replace the film based one before their market entirely disapears.
 
Problem is that most increases are US only. Like Visoneer said, buying gray from Tony will save hundreds for the same product. I have no problem buying gray market lenses since there is hardly anything on them to go wrong. A mechanical MP I would have no problem buying Gray as well. However, buying electronic cameras would be a different story. I would have to decide weather I should send it over seas for repair or NJ for repair.

USA MP's on his website are 3295
Gray seems to be about 2400.00

you may need to call and veify.
 
TEZillman said:
I'm having a hard time understanding why this should be a surprise. You have a company who produces a high end luxury product. The demand for the product drops, but costs do not. Result? - financial problems. The company can only reduce expenses so far. The only way out is to increase prices and try to put together a digital luxury item to replace the film based one before their market entirely disapears.
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Yes, but are you going to pay umpteen buckos for a digital luxury item? One that will be technologically obsolete w/in 18 months of its issue (and is really tech obsolete the day it comes out because the design of the next generation is already being finalized)?

Come to think of it - are there any luxury digital consumer goods at all? :confused:
 
copake_ham said:
Come to think of it - are there any luxury digital consumer goods at all? :confused:
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Yes, I've just seen a documentary about a company making luxury mobile phones. Platin and gems worth some 100.000 Euro and it just works as a phone, no 3g gimmicks or games.
 
Yes, but are you going to pay umpteen buckos for a digital luxury item? One that will be technologically obsolete w/in 18 months of its issue (and is really tech obsolete the day it comes out because the design of the next generation is already being finalized)?

I didn't say it was a good strategy, it just isn't surprising
 
I think another factor regarding the increases is related to the collector's market for Leica and other rangefinder gear- both new and vintage. The new MP3 'reissue' sells for over 4200 USD and the Ralph Gibson Signature MP is about 5500 USD. They're made in limited quantites but you can be sure they'll sell out and very shortly be worth more!

I don't know if anyone follows some of the camera auctions, but there was just an MP-2 (only about 300 made) that sold for 75K USD, or an MP that sold for somewhere around 50K USD! Granted, those increases took about 50 years but those amounts are pretty outrageous.

On a related note to the gray market topic that's been bandied about. If a dealer, such as Tony Rose (or any other USA authorized Leica dealer) is selling new non-USA gear, doesn't that violate his agreement with Leica?

Gman
 
I spoke to Jim Kuehl a couple of weeks ago while looking for some used Leica gear. He described Leica as rearanging the deck chairs on the Titanic. He sees two major price increses as the end for leica particularly in a failing film market. My conversation with Jim made me think about what would happen if leica goes bust. I'm now shooting more film than I have since changing the business to digital about six years ago. I've actually started promoting film as the high end choice for some of my clients. You might say I'm over the digital mania. Anyway, I started looking at my film equipent and thinking what would last for the rest of my career and what wouldn't. The one ares that concerned me was my Leica system given their financial shape. My M6 is still going strong but my 1960 M2 has started to loose contrast in the RF. It's not bad but certainly is fading. My lenses are great but there are a couple that I wanted to add and one that I deceided to sell. I feel like B&W film is going to be here for many years to come and I want to keep using my Leicas for my "dark" images. To me film and Leicas are the best choice for my style. I deceided to invest some bucks and get two new MP's
an 85 summilux and a 35 1.2 CV. I might even buy a new 90 asph before it's over but not for shure. I purchased a factory demo a la carte MP and sent the check and paperwork today to Tony Rose for another new a la carte MP. I don't know if I will sell the M6 but I will keep the M2 for sentimental reasons. In any case my M6 is minty and will only go up in value if I deceide to sell it later. Now I have the system that will last the rest of my life. Repairs will be no problem since there are so many repair shops that service M's and plenty of parts can be had from older cameras if needed. Another thought concerning the end of leica and prices of new and used gear. If Leica goes bust the prices will totally go out of sight. The increases that we've seen in the past year will be nothing like we will see if this happens. My feeling is that leica has to pull this out with a digital M. It's got to be at a price and quality to compete with the canon cameras and if they don't pull it off they will be gone in a year or so. I think digital is the only salvation for them.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=2450
 
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Even in the 70's Leicas were over-priced; and with the Canadian and Japanese connections, salespeople shunned them. "Not like an M3 or M4," they'd say. I recall being talked out of buying a CL. Hey, I was young in those days so what did I know compared with sales people? Anyway, I don't think wages have kept up with Leica's price increases. So now they can't even be a working man's tool. :cool:
 
Well what's really interesting is how Leica decides to respond to the Zeiss/Cosina challenge of the new Zeiss Ikon by RAISING prices!

I guess this opens market share to Z/C - that is unless they are stupid enough to thinkthat this is an opportunity for them to raise their prices too! :bang:

I'm a Nikonian - but to my way of thinking, the best M-mount system today is a Zeiss Ikon with a R2A (or R3A) backup body and you can pick and choose your lenses after that!

Meanwhile, I think I'm gonna get me another R2S before Steve runs out of them!
 
One of the RFF members posted an inflation calculator. In 1968 I bought my first very clean M2 body and paid about $250. I put this into the calculator and set the date to 2006. The price that popped out was exactly what I paid for my demo MP a couple of weeks earlier. Leica has always been high but the prices to day are relative to current cost of living. To give you some perspective on $250 in 1968. In 1968 I bought a 1965 Plymouth with 36,000 miles for $250 and it was in very nice shape. I regularly paid 17.9 cents per gallon for gas and saw it as low as 14.9 per gallon.
 
Meanwhile, I think I'm gonna get me another R2S before Steve runs out of them!
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You like 'em better than the new A's? How do you find its lens? Sharp? :cool:
 
I purchased all my new Leica either years ago, or from dealers liquidating their Leica stock at cost. Even so it was breathtakingly costly. There is just no way I could justify to myself paying MSRP for Leica items, even before the recent price increase. At this point, Greys and used equipment is probably the way to go.

I just don't understand the rational anymore when it comes to their marketing. Maybe they are getting folks mentally prepared for the cost of any new digital rangefinder?
 
sgy1962 said:
I purchased all my new Leica either years ago, or from dealers liquidating their Leica stock at cost. Even so it was breathtakingly costly. There is just no way I could justify to myself paying MSRP for Leica items, even before the recent price increase. At this point, Greys and used equipment is probably the way to go.

I just don't understand the rational anymore when it comes to their marketing. Maybe they are getting folks mentally prepared for the cost of any new digital rangefinder?
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Which will cost about 4000 Euro according to the rumours. That would be a very competetive price. Even 5000 wouldn't frighten prospective customers, my contacts in the trade tell me. The DMR + R9 is in exactly the same price bracket as the 1DSII, resulting in sales that outstrip production.Sales of all sectors were up by a very fair margin in the last financial press release, even in the USA. Maybe they ain't so stupid.
 
Frank Granovski said:
You like 'em better than the new A's? How do you find its lens? Sharp? :cool:
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The "R2S" is a Nikon mount - gotta go with my existing glass - Nikkors and Cosinas! ;)
 
copake_ham said:
Yes, but are you going to pay umpteen buckos for a digital luxury item? One that will be technologically obsolete w/in 18 months of its issue (and is really tech obsolete the day it comes out because the design of the next generation is already being finalized)?
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Why on earth would a digital M be obsolete in 18 months? Let's examine Canon. Most of the socalled "upgrades"concern buffer memory and burst rate (totally uninteresting in RF), Autofocus performance (who uses AF anyway?) digital processing and color balance (quality-conscious photographers use RAW) and ISO-performance (never heard of tripods?).The rest is just gimmicks.Oh yes- and an insignificant resolution rise from 6 to 8 MP. 95% of all digital Canon photo's are taken with a D20could just as well -and indistinguishably so- be taken with a 30D I feel Leica cumstomers do not fall for this marketing-driven upgrade frenzy, which, admittedly, is masterfully orchestrated by Canon and to a lesser extent Nikon.On top of that the pace of development in sensor technology is slowing exponentially, as far as practical applications are concerned.If my digital M will be perfect now, it still will be so in 5 or 10 years time, if GAS doesn't fuddle my mental capacities too much.
 
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