Leica M - a failed experiment?

thegf said:
i will admit that my fear of being judged as cliche was a bit overstated. i guess my point is that i feel a slight bit of discomfort in carrying around, and using, a film camera. i think it is actually more deep rooted; my dad, as a former pro, switched to digital. everyone in my family shoots digital (whether pro or just snapshots at christmas, etc.). so when i pull out a film camera, i get the common response of "why bother with film". unfortunately, this mentality has taken its toll on me, and i start to think the same thing. (consider a bully who tells his victim he is stupid. over time, the victim thinks he is stupid. yes, that's a crass analogy, but it is certainly apt.)

but then every time i pick up my m6 just for a fondle (not necessarily to shoot), i enjoy how it feels. the sounds it makes. but should i even be thinking about this? to make a further analogy, its like the guy who buys a brand new mercedes but doesn't drive it. is that the function of photography? to have a nice camera but feel afraid of taking nice pictures?

the more i see photos taken with a 5D + 50L or 35L, the more i think my decision has been made, and i should get rid of the m6. but then i touch my camera, and its more confusion.

i think this is the epitome of first world problems.
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Haptics are very important to objects that we use. A car might look great but handle poorly; women can be like that, too. 😉 Did you know that the Japanese cosmetics company Shiseido makes all of their bottles and jars with this 'feeling' in mind as well? They are designed so that they feel good to use, with rounded edges and a precise number of turns for caps and lids.

I enjoy the feeling of a good DSLR but I love the feeling of a well made rangefinder. Many people find something viscerally satisfying about handling a Leica. I don't quite have this feeling with a 5DII, though.

Regarding the family's general attitude towards film photography, there's not much to be said about that. Family opinion is something we all deal with in one form or another, and over time we all find ways of dealing with it. At least it's not like the family is vehemently denigrating your choice of spouse at every opportunity, which does happen!

I have a 5DII and assorted L-lenses, but I have come to use that only for work. I like the looks, feel and images from my M9 much more, even though it lacks autofocus, has crapulent high ISO, has imprecise framing, no video at all, and has a shutter recock sound like a screeching bat. I would like the M9 even more if it were as slim as the M7 and had a cloth shutter, as this would contribute to the operational feel.
 
thegf said:
perhaps i did, but as i said, i've certainly learned something from the process.

it's quite possible that i learned i am not a "real photographer," as you say. i think i am OK with that - given that that term is devoid of any substance. my aspiration is to take pictures that i am happy with, and pictures i can share with others.

i'm not in in for the money, though, as i have a normal day job that compensates me well enough to not worry about experiments such as this. as well, my day job is a stressful, and in some ways it sucks the life out of me. photography is a form of escape.

finally, to suggest that i am aspiring to be a "real photographer" merely by buying a camera is far from the truth. sure, i could buy something cheap and then work into it, but why bother if i can afford to try a Leica (or whatever other camera)?

thanks to everyone else who contributed to this discussion. i appreciate it.
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Yes, you have captured the essence of the issue entirely for me. I've struggled to decide if I am a film or digital photographer also. And I have found that the answer is just not that simple. I am a photographer. I love taking pictures. I use both film and digital. I love the slow process of exposing film. It just requires more thought. Some days I am entirely in the mood for that. Some days I am more interested in quickly getting what I want and at those times I take out my digital cameras. Often, I take both.

But it occurs to me that this discussion of film vs. digital is entirely artificial. Pointless. And unresolvable.

Also, there are no failed experiments. You conducted the experiment, you got a result. That is a success.

Photography is about capturing light. Not so much about the particular method.

Tom
 
Don't think too much about yourself, just enjoy taking pics. As you have already said, you have a day job and photography should be fun (def. in your case), so don't spoil it! Life's too short.
 
Every path is individual. I found my 'zone' in LF for years and now it seems to be with rangefinders and increasingly 35mm rangefinders with grainy film at that. Things might change in which case it will happen all over again, but that's OK, right? There does not need to be a destination for the journey to have merit.
 
A lot of my friends and family think I'm crazy shooting with film. Just and old fart too set in his ways for the modern world. On the other hand I'm kind of a gadget guy, always with the newest smartphone, iPad or whatever.
The only way I can explain it is that taking pictures is important for me. The mental de-acceleration which culminates in capturing an instant is more rewarding than the final image. I find it difficult to achieve this zen of photography with a digital camera.

Your journey is very interesting to read. It is different than mine, and that is good that way.
 
I'm old. I grew up shooting with film and did that for 40+ years. I learned the hard way, starting on 4x5 and occasionally larger.

Now I find Digital a delight. I'm not crapping on film. I'm usin what maks sense. I don't have the time or energy to reopen a dark room I last used i the dark ages. But more than that I have the experience of having started in film and having a film discipline.

That means 36 frames or x holders of 4x5 or 12 or 24 120 or 220 rolls. But I also remember when bracketing mean having to reload and that there were too many frantic changes of film or emulsions, i.e. count version differences. Bracketing and all the rest was tougher.

Whatever.

Apply film discipline to digital, i.e. pretend you have only x frames or you have to use the same emulsion. No sudden shift of ISO, etc. When you get the discipline down, then you can start to uncork the freedom of digital.

Because fit will end up digital sooner or later when it comes to what people seek.
 
You miss more potential shots with film because you shoot far less of it but (perversely) you normally get better shots because you make them count.

The only time in the last year that I felt I was missing something with film was when I had to shoot a load of pictures of a choir (who move!) in a dimly-lit church. A DSLR with image stabilisation and stupidly high ISO performance would have got better results. I still managed to do the job with a Leica M3, 90mm Elmarit and XP2, but only one in three shots was sharp - which is why I took so many. 1/8 second and 90mm is dubious, even with a monopod.
 
hey everyone, thanks for the helpful words.

as it turns out, i purchased a 5d mark ii. i find myself using many of the skills i developed, and actually enjoy using a DSLR again. i'm starting to get the hang of photoshop as well, which i think will help everything.

in addition to my previously mentioned woes, its largely a time thing. as "fun" as a darkroom can be, i find it hard to make time to develop/print after i've shot some pictures. with digital, i can spend an afternoon shooting and then having something ready shortly thereafter. it's not necessarily an instant gratification thing; its more timing. (my inability to go straight to the darkroom could also involve my inner "resistance," which Steven Pressfield describes in the War of Art - a great read.)

oh, and i landed a magazine shoot, which has a quick turnaround time and need for off-camera flashes, high framerates and fast shutter speeds. i could never shoot it with my leica.

i'm still deciding whether i should keep the m6 or if i should just abandon ship. i'm sure once my mastercard bill arrives, my decision will be easy. but i also don't like having too much stuff, so it may need to go. the way i see it, if i ever want another leica, i could probably find one pretty easy.

regards,
t
 
I learned photography with my father's old Konica FT-1 Motor. Loved that camera, despite the noisy motor film advance, up until the circuits failed after a couple years of use. Had dabbled into digital photography with the Nikon D80 a year prior to that moment, but didn't have that emotional connection, that experience I had when shooting with the Konica, so I eventually sold it a couple months later.

There were a couple things I learned in that short time shooting Nikon Digital, however. It made me think about all the aspects of shooting with film that were inconvenient for me, particularly costs, time, and being unable to change the film mid-roll. I also realized that I never had made a print and ignorantly skipped over the darkroom process, until I worked with its digital equivalent, Photoshop.

From there it was a real internal battle trying to find the camera for me. Canon EOS 40D? Yashica Electro 35 GSN? Maybe a Yashica Mat 124 G? Used them all but to no avail. They were all missing something, but I had gained so much in terms of knowledge, technique and vision on this path that blurred between digital and film. In a perfect world, there would be a rangefinder camera with a full-frame sensor in my hands, but we all know how much those cost.

Thankfully, I had held a Canon EOS 5D Mark II in my hands and immediately felt at home. The simple operation and viewfinder in combination with a full-frame sensor took me back to my 35mm SLR days with the Konica while enabling me to work in the photographic medium I excelled in, digital. Armed with a light meter, 35L and a 50L, I find myself as someone, as jmc56 puts it, with "film discipline" working with the "freedom of digital". I even shoot with lower capacity CF cards, the rear lcd OFF, and dialed into M.
 
Why must it boil down to an issue of "am I a film or digital person?" Relax, do whatever. Today I might wake up with the feeling for "shooting some film" or maybe I will want to "capture some digital images", I might even want to do both. 😕 No problem, until I start to anal -lies it too much (lie to myself). I like what I like at the moment I like it, that is all that I really can say with authority. Perhaps this has been best expressed by Cartier-Bresson's, "The Decisive Moment"..., or perhaps not? Sometimes the best decision we can make is no decision at all. 😀
 
Hmmm, slide projectors are dirt cheap these days, even with Leitz on the side and on the lens. Why not try some slide film and send it off for processing by the makers. It's an eye-opener.

Regards, David
 
good luck with your decision. You sound like a thoughtful person, so I'm sure you'll settle on where you need to be photographically.

However....I'm betting there's going to be a Leica film camera in your bag for a long time. You'll eventually tire of the whiz-bang immediacy of digital, at leaat for your personal work.

My professional work is always digital, of course. My personal stuff, the photos that will matter in 25 years - family, friends, loved ones, daily life as its lived - remains film, always.
 
Experiments that give a discernable outcome, even if it's not what you expected, are not failed experiments.

Learning that a Leica is not the camera which works best for you right now is a valuable outcome.
 
I have been through both ends of this, a couple of times. I started with film, decades ago, then was an early adopter of digital, then back to film, then digital, and now I'm back on film.

Here are the things I've gotten out of all this:
1/ I don't like the darkroom (I knew that already)
2/ I like small cameras with good finders, and prime lenses
3/ I don't *need* more than a 24/28mm and 50mm lens
4/ I'm more comfy with B&W than color
5/ I really love Photoshop

My solution has been to buck up and develop the film. Then I "scan" it with my Nikon D300, and print it on my printer, IF I want prints, which I rarely do.

If you like using the Leica (not totally clear to me), if you like the look of film (not totally clear either), then developing film is not really that rough; it's the printing part that's time consuming and boring, so ditch that part. Get yourself a 4-reel tank--they're not expensive, and it will get you through the job that much quicker.

If none of the above applies, and you just don't like non-digital, I don't see any reason for sticking with film. However, having sold all my Leica stuff THREE times, I don't recommend you do that: every time I come back, prices seem to have tripled, and getting back in is painful. Just keep the Leica.

I think the concern about what people see is bogus. People see almost nothing that's going on around them. All of my friends noticed I'd started carrying a camera all the time again. Not a single one noticed that it wasn't the D300 they'd seen me using for the last four years or so.
 
I disagree with you saying that using film takes time and ambition — I went from digital to film and found that the only real difference was how the film captured light compared to the sensor.

It seems what you don't like is more the "after" side of things — organising, printing etc. and I can sympathise with that, but one thing that keeps me at film as far as that goes: there's a comfort knowing that your photos are more than just numbers in a file.

Maybe if you sent your photos to a lab to be processed, instead of trying to do everything yourself, you might change your opinion. When I first started out with film, I wanted a darkroom — 2 years later, I realise that all I really care about is making the photos (to the point that I'm not even in a hurry to get my film to the lab anymore — it just goes when I remember to get it there).

What I'm trying to say here, I think, is that you took on more than you could handle at the beginning — you're basically a step away from buying film in bulk and cutting it yourself. Find a good lab that develops well and does scanning/printing, then try again with film — it might really change how you see it. It'll be less work on you and more enjoying the equipment/photo-making side.
 
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