Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Oh, I don't know. I think the improvements are all welcome. Live view = no more concern about focus shift. It will make all M lenses more useful. As for the accessories that make the camera larger: if you don't like the size, don't use 'em. The camera does seem like a concerted engineering effort to not lose "contact" with the peloton, if you know what I mean. I don't know why any M-lens owner (or R-lens owner) wouldn't welcome that. As for price, I don't see how anyone could be surprised at Leica's strategy. It has been the same for 60 years: price at the top of the market and let the chips fall. Being a glass-half-full kind of guy, I say "well done."
[Edit: Leica did get a lot of cr@p from the world for abandoning its R line and the R digital module, this move circles back to pick up those folks. I think it makes sense to reserve judgment on the camera as a whole until the world can see how the chip behaves.]
[Another Edit for those with doubts about the red dot or some other feature: if not this feature set, what would you all have rather seen (in the realm of the possible)?]
[Edit: Leica did get a lot of cr@p from the world for abandoning its R line and the R digital module, this move circles back to pick up those folks. I think it makes sense to reserve judgment on the camera as a whole until the world can see how the chip behaves.]
[Another Edit for those with doubts about the red dot or some other feature: if not this feature set, what would you all have rather seen (in the realm of the possible)?]
flip
良かったね！
When he has his head all in the live viewfinder all I can think is that it would be an invitation to thieves as he is holding a leica visibly and blindly. I guess a normal finder doesn't make me fear this.
maddoc
... likes film again.
The M-E could be a camera I would buy ... if I had the funds and prices for films start steeply increasing.
Dunk
Established
Richard G
Veteran
The price is a surprise to me. But adding the EVF will surely add at least another $1000 and likely more. Live view and focus peaking. It is impressive.
leicapixie
Well-known
A truly remarkable feat for such a small company. Sure the new "M"'s may not be perfect. Why should they be? Digital cameras are always getting better.. If I had the money, then maybe..Over the years I've come to prefer using SLR.
I love my Leicas, don't get me wrong! Leica has actually managed to make a bridge, full frame. The Frames though must be illuminated..making coding a "de riguer". It's way more than an improvement.
Leica judged the market very carefully, with M8 and M9. Sales way higher than anticipated.
Now we wait to find out from all those living under rocks, what the camera cannot do! I'm yet to find any bad cameras or lenses(OK most zooms). I just see bad photographs.
I love my Leicas, don't get me wrong! Leica has actually managed to make a bridge, full frame. The Frames though must be illuminated..making coding a "de riguer". It's way more than an improvement.
Leica judged the market very carefully, with M8 and M9. Sales way higher than anticipated.
Now we wait to find out from all those living under rocks, what the camera cannot do! I'm yet to find any bad cameras or lenses(OK most zooms). I just see bad photographs.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I think it's good that Leica have made the video and EVF capability 'bolt on options.'
I was expecting this camera to cost a lot more than an M9 and I'm pleasantly surprised to be wrong!
fstops
-
The M9 uses a CCD sensor, which tend to have cleaner files with better color rendition, also a far more pleasant looking high ISO shots.
M(10) has a CMOS sensor, the ubiquitous sensor in most cameras today since its ideal for video.
The simple difference between CCD and CMOS is that CCD captures light and transfers it to be processed away from the sensor while CMOS processes the light in the sensor itself.
porktaco
Well-known
More pleasant high ISO? Not my m9. Lol
It's fat. It's heavy. It's expensive. Ok great. Whatever. Kudos to Leica for integrating live view and r lenses and video in as unobtrusive a way as possible. At first blush it looks like half a dlsr, which might end up being a smart marketing move but feels unnatural. What I will watch for
My winning lottery numbers
Overall image quality
High ISO performance
Shutter sounded quieter
Physical dimensions
What the EVF and live peaking are like in the real world.
It's probably awesome but I'm looking at a fuji xe for a low light rig.
It's fat. It's heavy. It's expensive. Ok great. Whatever. Kudos to Leica for integrating live view and r lenses and video in as unobtrusive a way as possible. At first blush it looks like half a dlsr, which might end up being a smart marketing move but feels unnatural. What I will watch for
My winning lottery numbers
Overall image quality
High ISO performance
Shutter sounded quieter
Physical dimensions
What the EVF and live peaking are like in the real world.
It's probably awesome but I'm looking at a fuji xe for a low light rig.
flyalf
Well-known
Impressive line-up by Leica. Depressing attempt to bash Leica by this poll. Line-up is satisfying both traditionalists and others.
jbielikowski
Jan Bielikowski
All those add-ons look quite useful, making the M not just a street shooter but regular pro camera for all types of assignments.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Any chance I can revoke my 'Meh' vote?
Seen the video and liked it more than I thought I would. Gotta admit I was pretty opposed, especially considering all the humdrum I was expecting here.
Indeed the M is a real achievement and I really like the fact that it can be a rangefinder and a mirrorless SLR in one body.
I'm thinking that Leica isn't a small boutique company anymore, sales on the M8 and M9s must have been real good since this must have been a lot of R&D investments in a relatively short time.
Anybody got a surplus winning lottery ticket?:angel:
fstops
-
Yeah, finally one can shoot wildlife and macro with Leica M, that is in the local zoo that also on a nice and sunny day.
urban_alchemist
Well-known
As someone who has used his M9 in environments where it's not really comfortable (read: studio shoots), I welcome most of these changes. It allows us the classic rangefinder experience when we want it (read: most of the time), but also gives us the flexibility to use the same camera where before it was insanely compromised.
However, there's a big question-mark hovering over the image quality. I LOVE the way my M9 renders colours, and all the images I've seen so far from this camera have been flat and lifeless. Still, we're months away from launch, and I doubt that Leica would screw that part up - even the most unsuccessful of products (X1?) were capable of astonishing captures...
However, there's a big question-mark hovering over the image quality. I LOVE the way my M9 renders colours, and all the images I've seen so far from this camera have been flat and lifeless. Still, we're months away from launch, and I doubt that Leica would screw that part up - even the most unsuccessful of products (X1?) were capable of astonishing captures...
It's essentially Sony A99 in a bigger package for over 2x the price without auto focus. Not counting the cost of the lenses of course...
Yay! Use a zoom lens in stop down mode, with manual focus. Sounds tedious...
Not counting the cost of the lenses of course...Yay! Use a zoom lens in stop down mode, with manual focus. Sounds tedious...
fstops
-
Sony A99 has a max ISO limit of 25,600, M10 has a Max ISO of 6400.
NazgulKing
Established
It's essentially Sony A99 in a bigger package for over 2x the price without auto focus.
Yay! Use a zoom lens in stop down mode, with manual focus. Sounds tedious...
Sensor was made in Belgium.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
What, the Sony A99 can also be used without the EVF and the grip, and with RF lenses on it? As a small and compact package with an OVF?
How come I missed that?
That Leica M is a Transformer that can be a sports car and a school bus.
How come I missed that?
That Leica M is a Transformer that can be a sports car and a school bus.
swoop
Well-known
Saw it yesterday and it did immediately change my perception of the camera. It does seem bulkier for some reason. Maybe that guy is small. But looking at the results it does make me feel like maybe I could get used to it. Based on perception alone the dynamic range seemed higher, and having ISO 6400 alone is worth the upgrade. Video isn't going to sway me, I rarely use video, but seeing it in use, it could come in handy to not need a separate device if I ever do need to grab footage.
Either way there's no money in my budget for new cameras. This is the year I upgrade my computer, backup systems and apps. I can live with my M9 for another year.
Paul Luscher
Well-known
Re the M: I dunno. I guess it's an improvement, but --I'm being a Luddite here--it just ain't the same camera anymore. Live view? Yeah, I guess, but I never thought it was really that necessary on an M. Frankly, I can get pretty much the same features on an Olympus EM-5, for about 1/7 the price of the M.
Guess the thing I see is that Leica is now going for the feature-loaded camera, like the other camera makers, which will practically do everything for you but push the button. Whereas one of the real appeals of the classic M design was that it was so basic and minimal--all muscle and no fat, so to speak. YOU were in control of how the shot came out, not the camera (still the case for me, even with the M9ddly enough, I find myself using it in manual mode more often than not).
One thing that I do like about the new M is that it looks like it has those LED framelines which we first saw on that ridiculous $22K M9. Since I do shoot a lot of music acts in clubs, one of the problems I've had is that the framelines in the M viewfinder can become very dim in darkened settings. This can make framing a shot challenging, to say the least, especially with a 90mm lens. So if the M does have those LED framelines, I might buy it for that reason.
I guess Leica had to come out with the new M to stay relevant in the camera business. While the classic M design is nearly perfect for a rangefinder, I understand that Leica has to start moving beyond a 1950s-era concept--standing pat is death....look what happened to the Leica R line....
Oh, I'll get one of these new Ms someday, maybe. Matter of grubbing up the cash, for one thing. But in the meantime, I'm perfectly happy with my old M9.
Guess the thing I see is that Leica is now going for the feature-loaded camera, like the other camera makers, which will practically do everything for you but push the button. Whereas one of the real appeals of the classic M design was that it was so basic and minimal--all muscle and no fat, so to speak. YOU were in control of how the shot came out, not the camera (still the case for me, even with the M9
ddly enough, I find myself using it in manual mode more often than not). One thing that I do like about the new M is that it looks like it has those LED framelines which we first saw on that ridiculous $22K M9. Since I do shoot a lot of music acts in clubs, one of the problems I've had is that the framelines in the M viewfinder can become very dim in darkened settings. This can make framing a shot challenging, to say the least, especially with a 90mm lens. So if the M does have those LED framelines, I might buy it for that reason.
I guess Leica had to come out with the new M to stay relevant in the camera business. While the classic M design is nearly perfect for a rangefinder, I understand that Leica has to start moving beyond a 1950s-era concept--standing pat is death....look what happened to the Leica R line....
Oh, I'll get one of these new Ms someday, maybe. Matter of grubbing up the cash, for one thing. But in the meantime, I'm perfectly happy with my old M9.