Leica M EV1 First Review - It's Bad

[bcostin]

Step 1: Enable focus peaking by turning locus ring)

Step 2: Magnify (for verication)

Step 3: Adjust to nail fcous

Oops. The subject has moved on.

If steps 1-3 can be somehow be combined into one step, then it’d be more viable for street and similar uses. I’d still miss the rangefinder.

That is pretty much what you'd do on Sony mirrorless EVFs with adapted manual glass. Except the lens focus ring has no connection to activate peaking or magnification, so it's done via buttons on the body. The "button dance" is comfortably fast with practice, especially if you use the old manual-focus habit of approximately prefocusing the lens as you raise the finder to your eye.

 

[JeffS7444]

The EV1 user manual claims you can do that (via the focus ring) but that might be some spillover from the Q3 manual, or the sensor can detect it.
View attachment 4879234

"Move the position of an enlarged section by swiping" strongly suggests they're talking about the rear-panel LCD. Still, it's good they thought of it, and it suggests it could be added to the EVF via software update.

 

[plexi]

"Move the position of an enlarged section by swiping" strongly suggests they're talking about the rear-panel LCD. Still, it's good they thought of it, and it suggests it could be added to the EVF via software update.

On my Canon R6II I can move the focus point I see in the viewfinder which swiping on the screen, but yeah I hope it's not rear screen only!

 

[plexi]

I handled an M11 EV1 tonight. Once zoomed, the EVF magnified area can’t be moved. You can exit the magnification, move the zoom point on the screen on the back, and re-zoom. The M10 and M11 series cameras with the Visoflex don’t work like this.

Ah bummer. Thanks for checking.

 

[Godfrey]

I think you’ve answered your own question: you can have the M10-11, then add the EVF, while others can simply enjoy the EVF M without additional hassles. There will always be questions when new technology hits the market. Leica not only offers digital M cameras, but also film and EVF M models. These are good things for users, even though the market for Leica M is very small.

I wasn't speaking just of me, since I obviously have the issue in hand. The question is whether Leica sees an EVF camera as the direction for all M cameras. That is not clear, at least not to me. They might make noises like "we will never depart from our traditional rangefinder entirely" but in the end what motivates corporations is profit. And I bet the EVF model costs less than the rangefinder model to manufacture.

You keep insisting that this camera is "new technology". There is nothing new about an EVF-only camera, EVF only cameras have been on the market for 20+ years. The only thing new here is Leica offering an M-line with only an EVF. That isn't new technology, that's simply new product marketing.

There's nothing particularly new or leading edge in the EVF camera to my view. It's just the label Leica on the front and a high price on technology that is well proven and surpassed by several other EVF only cameras already on the market.

This is probably an entirely academic argument for me, since I'm old and the M10-M/-R is probably all I'll ever want in Leica M gear for most of the rest of my life (presuming they don't break and I can get the batteries forever...), and I have the film Ms I like as well. I don't like to say "never" but odds are I will never own even an M11, never mind an M EV1. So I'm just stating my opinion that I think this new camera has a low value proposition compared to what they could have done as a general discussion kind of thing. I don't care much if you or anyone else really wants just this ... But I haven't heard anything to convince me that there's something really special about it that I can't obtain else where for less money.

G

 

[ellisson]

I don't know anyone at Leica, and I certainly don't have inside info concerning what drives their product line other than the cardinal rule of any business which is, to stay in business, be profitable. You don't sell, you lose money, you go out of business or get bought out. This new product is not about new technology or new innovation. All very nice, sure. But will the product sell, and is there a market for this camera - that is what is important to stay profitable. There are always critics and naysayers as there were for the SL camera when it first appeared....oh, it's AF is too slow, it's ugly, it's too big, there is no image stabilization...and Canon and Nikon and Sony are better......

I'll wager there is a market for this camera, and it will sell. And that Leica did market research as part of their strategy for product development. I use an M10 now, and have not tried an M11 or felt the need to upgrade to that model along with more than $1000 added on to the M11 cost for another Visoflex that I find annoying. I'd consider the M-EV1 as an attractive option/alternative to the M11 if I were to upgrade.

 

[d_c]

It's essentially a Q that takes interchangeable lenses, in which case Leica could have made it with the smaller body form factor of the Q3? If I was a cynical person I'd say that it wasn't because the M body form factor allows a higher retail price ... ?

I still think the next logical step in the evolution of the M-series is going to be addition of IBIS.

 

[ellisson]

It's essentially a Q that takes interchangeable lenses, in which case Leica could have made it with the smaller body form factor of the Q3? If I was a cynical person I'd say that it wasn't because the M body form factor allows a higher retail price ... ?

I still think the next logical step in the evolution of the M-series is going to be addition of IBIS.

Not quite a Q that takes interchangeable lenses.
The Q has OIS as part of the lens design; there is no IBIS for the Q cameras. Leicas M lenses do not have OIS, obviously. So you can’t just interchange lenses without making a new line of OIS lenses that integrate with the camera sensor.

 

[Godfrey]

One final thought from me on this M EV1 topic. For all those citing how the EVF is superior to the RF in ease of use, focusing accuracy, precise framing, etc etc: Having lived through the switchover from RF cameras to SLR cameras in the 1960s and 1970s, what I'm hearing is an almost exact redux of the same arguments that decimated nearly to extinction the RF camera. The Rangefinder Forum was created, in part, to celebrate the continued existence and usefulness of rangefinder cameras.

And now so many seem fixed on getting EVFs into their Leica M cameras because (hyperbole) "it's obviously a better technology than the rangefinder for focusing and framing!] Who needs that skanky old, hard to use, rangefinder?"

Doesn't anyone else think this is a sad irony?

G

 

[ellisson]

One final thought from me on this M EV1 topic. For all those citing how the EVF is superior to the RF in ease of use, focusing accuracy, precise framing, etc etc: Having lived through the switchover from RF cameras to SLR cameras in the 1960s and 1970s, what I'm hearing is an almost exact redux of the same arguments that decimated nearly to extinction the RF camera. The Rangefinder Forum was created, in part, to celebrate the continued existence and usefulness of rangefinder cameras.

And now so many seem fixed on getting EVFs into their Leica M cameras because (hyperbole) "it's obviously a better technology than the rangefinder for focusing and framing!] Who needs that skanky old, hard to use, rangefinder?"

Doesn't anyone else think this is a sad irony?

G

I wouldn't call it better technology in an absolute sense, but it is better for some people with glasses or who have some hand/arm tremors (the M EV1 has stabilization of the viewfinder image to assist in focusing - that's another way to help focusing) as they age. And many consider it superior especially for focusing fast lenses with narrow DOF at full aperture e.g, f1.4 and faster. So the EV s could be viewed as advantageous over RF focusing in these situations.
There is room for RF and EV for us as rangefinder camera users. RF cameras are a pleasure to use, as is shooting film and the process of making images with the analog cameras.

In a recent thread on camera sales, the relatively inexpensive Canon DSLR was the clear market winner, so yes, rangefinder cameras are a very small piece of the camera market. Not extinct, but clearly not the main option for most photographers. Yet Leica continues to make analog cameras and a variety of lenses for them, even if relatively speaking they are a small % of their camera sales. And Leica is a luxury brand with a heritage of hand-made, high quality materials and craftsmanship that we pay a lot for. The haptics and experience of using their cameras and lenses even if they are not the most innovative or technologically advanced appeals to us.

Leica's continued existence in the photography world depends not just on their analog or digital M cameras. They needed to diversify to boost overall sales and offer something more in the competitive photography market. And to continue to make their M line rangefinder cameras, both analog and digital.

 

[splitimageview]

I haven't heard anything to convince me that there's something really special about it that I can't obtain else where for less money.

One thing is certain, there have always been options nearly as good, as good, or better than Leica for less money.

So it's not really a matter of price.

I can't see anyone perfectly willing to spend $9000 for this, whereas $9900 for an optical RF is a bridge too far...

No, buyers that end up purchasing the EVF are purchasing it because that is actually what they think they want. They may simply not be knowledgeable enough about optical rangefinders to know otherwise.

 

[shawn]

Yes, it’s just not precise enough at standard viewfinder magnification. More resolution actually doesn’t improve things since the image size is greatly reduced.

Take an out of focus digital image and reduce its size on a monitor—it will appear to be in proper focus.

I have had many different evfs at different resolutions. Higher resolution definitely makes it easier/quicker to mf in my experience as it is sharper, the image size doesn't go down if EVF resolution increases. Can also see an almost shimmering kind of thing, sort of like a microprism but that is more noticable with the higher magnification on my finder of about .93x.

 

[shawn]

Fuji attempted a digital split image RF a few years ago but I haven’t seen the latest implementation on their newest cameras so I’m not sure if it’s improved or not. I found it lacking.

I use to set that up almost like a focus confirm light on my Xpro 2. Put the camera in B&W mode (shoot raw so you still get color), put it into the ERF mode with the tiny evf window in the bottom right and set it for magnified focus and turn on pred eaking. Put the actual focus point whereever you want on the screen. If you see color (red) in the bottom ERF window the focus point is in focus.

 

[shawn]

The EV1 user manual claims you can do that (via the focus ring) but that might be some spillover from the Q3 manual, or the sensor can detect it.
View attachment 4879234

They could have some sort of RF follower just to see when the lens focus is being moved.

 

[plexi]

They could have some sort of RF follower just to see when the lens focus is being moved.

We figured it out later in the thread, the EV1 still has the cam, so it detects lens movement 🙂

 

[shawn]

It's essentially a Q that takes interchangeable lenses, in which case Leica could have made it with the smaller body form factor of the Q3? If I was a cynical person I'd say that it wasn't because the M body form factor allows a higher retail price ... ?

The Qs have a leaf shutter in the lens. M mount needs a focal plane shutter unless it goes electronic only shutter.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

It really is a legitimate concern. If you wear glasses, there are challenges when using an RF. I learned and adapted, like most other Leica users here. When I needed progressive trifocals to see clearly, I adapted again. But adapting to the camera's one single way of doing things isn't how every photographer is willing to operate. Leica has just decided they'd rather have those people as customers than send them over to the competition. Which is good, because Leica needs customers to stay in business.

I expect that there will be firmware updates to add other EVF focus aids, making that whole discussion moot in a few months.

People I know who can't focus with RF aren't with glasses.

Any M is utter garbage for glasses. Scratching them by metal.

 

[ellisson]

That low cost Canon DSLR with canon lenses is capable of making fine images at a fraction of the cost of most any Leica camera or high end Canon, Sony, or other pro-level offering. So we’re splitting hairs among exotic luxury options.

Most people that enjoy photography with cameras prefer the economy and excellent image making capabilities of so many other options out there. And they have fun. So I can’t see the big deal being made over the latest luxury item from Leica. Ya gots choices!! If you have fun with optical VF cameras and you have the funds for a $9000+ camera, great! If you prefer an EVF for your shooting and have similar funds to spend, why not the EVF camera? What’s the big deal? You don’t need to spend the $$$$ on either one to make great photos!

Comes down to money, fun, and choices. And some luck to be in a position to afford such choices, but that’s off-topic.

 

[Michalm]

I do not understand some of the choices Leica made here. For the money you pay you can only manage little over 200 shots per charge like on budget Canon r8 or RP that is fitted with tiny battery, no Electronic First shutter curtain and no modern focus Aid like the one ZF . All this resembles first generation of Sony cameras like a7r rather than modern mirrorless camera.