Leica M for a 4x5. Crazy?

[cnphoto]

I've been tossing up the idea of getting a 4x5 for a long, long time. I miss large negatives, and a complete Linhof Kardan Color setup (10 film holders, tripod, Pelican case, Nikon lens, dark cloth etc) for a very good price locally. Now i'm itching for it...

Predominately I shoot people and portraits, and have been longing for higher quality than the 35mm and even medium formats so am thinking of selling my M4-P, 28mm F2 ultron and Winder-M motor to fund the purchase (money is tight and I have no camera gear budget for the next year at least, saving for a house deposit).

I much prefer shooting with a 50mm and 90mm lens and dearly love my M3, and I find the 28mm lens too wide for most things (I may have enough change left over including some savings I have set aside for camera stuff to grab a 15mm Heliar for any very wide landscape stuff I may want to do).

Am I crazy? Those 4x5 negs really are calling to me 🙁

(on the plus side, I can always pick up another .72 or .85 M at a later date when funds permit. but this way I get to shoot with a 4x5 now/soon).

Damn this GAS...

 

[Roger Hicks]

Sounds like a hell of a lot of money for a 4x5 Kardan Color. Also, those plastic locking knobs are seriously fragile.

Cheers,

R.

 

[cnphoto]

That depends on how much the M sells for. Also, I would be looking to purchase an additional lens and lens boards.

I am also keeping an eye out on other 4x5 alternatives, and costs. In case I decide against this one.

 

[cnphoto]

Roger, would you recommend any other model of 4x5 as more rugged / suitable? Preferably something semi-portable.

I have also considered placing an ad offering a straight trade, depending on what is offered.

 

[murpograph]

4x5

4x5

maybe you would better look for a horseman rangefinder or a Koni-Omega. These cameras will do any portrait-shot at much lower cost. Plain-film is much more expensive and not as easy to handle as 120. And for your purpose tilt and shift isn't necessary.

Udo

 

[Jerevan]

If you like 4x5, then why not? You still have the M3 left.

I don't what price the Linhof kit is going for and what sort of focal length the Nikon lens is. And if the knobs on the Linhof are fragile, well, if they are fine now, then take a bit of care and they will last a good time yet.

But if you are looking for something semiportable to do portraits with I guess a field camera such as a Wista would do fine. If you want a monorail, get a Cambo, they are cheap. If you want a step up in quality, then a Sinar Norma would be a good bet.

 

[cnphoto]

I have had a Hasselblad 501 for a few years and this was my main camera for a long, long time; I am not really interested in getting another 120 film camera. 4x5 is what I am after, tilt / shift is part of the reason. As well as the slower workflow.

Though I do predominately shoot portraiture, I would also be shooting landscapes and some urban landscapes / abstract architecture type works.

 

[cnphoto]

thanks Jerevan, I have also been looking at the Cambo models. I'll check out the Sinar you mentioned.

 

[oftheherd]

If you like 4x5, then why not? You still have the M3 left.

I don't what price the Linhof kit is going for and what sort of focal length the Nikon lens is. And if the knobs on the Linhof are fragile, well, if they are fine now, then take a bit of care and they will last a good time yet.

But if you are looking for something semiportable to do portraits with I guess a field camera such as a Wista would do fine. If you want a monorail, get a Cambo, they are cheap. If you want a step up in quality, then a Sinar Norma would be a good bet.

I would also agree with the suggestion of a Cambo. They had/have some very light-weight models. Of course brands such as Calumet or Burke and James (One old salt called them Bunk and Junk 😛) are less expensive and if cared for will do what you want.

 

[gliderbee]

I'm very happy with my Shen-Hao ...🙂. For 4x5, I have had pleasant dealings with badgergraphic http://www.badgergraphic.com: reasonable price, good communication.

Stefan.

thanks Jerevan, I have also been looking at the Cambo models. I'll check out the Sinar you mentioned.

 

[stompyq]

I think thats seriously overpriced for a linhof Karden. Even on ebay you could get it cheaper. Since you say you like doing portraits and people my advice is to do away with the linhof all together. Heavy and cumbersome. The cambo/Burke and james etc are worse. If your really going in that direction go get a Sinar P or P2 with the money you get from the RF gear. Best fast LF for prople (but weighs a ton). I would recommend getting a CLEAN speed graphic with functional focal plane shutter. It'll open the door for using cheap barrel lenses. Then the skys the limit. Even a crown graphic is fine but then your stuck to more expensive shutter lenses (the kodaks are nice). I realise you'll have to gather up this gear instead of buy a kit but inb the long run you'll be happy. Plus if you find out that 4x5 is not your thing you'll be able to recover most if not all the money. You'll have hard time selling a karden for the price your going to get it (I'am assuming you'll get at least $1000 for your gear here at the forum)

 

[Roger Hicks]

If you like 4x5, then why not? You still have the M3 left.

I don't what price the Linhof kit is going for and what sort of focal length the Nikon lens is. And if the knobs on the Linhof are fragile, well, if they are fine now, then take a bit of care and they will last a good time yet.

But if you are looking for something semiportable to do portraits with I guess a field camera such as a Wista would do fine. If you want a monorail, get a Cambo, they are cheap. If you want a step up in quality, then a Sinar Norma would be a good bet.

Dear Jimi,

I've literally had one break in my hand as I tightened it! And it doesn't take much of a knock (how do I know? Two broken knobs...) It's one of those plastics that ages badly, becoming more and fragile with age.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Roger, would you recommend any other model of 4x5 as more rugged / suitable? Preferably something semi-portable.

I have also considered placing an ad offering a straight trade, depending on what is offered.

I wouldn't go for a Sinar: too big, heavy and awkward. So are Cambos. In fact the only monorail I'd go for is probably a Toho (very light) or a Technikardan (muchos dineros). I'd back a field camera or an MPP: google MPP for the MPP owners' club. Where are you? That makes a difference too: some cameras are much more common on one side of the Atlantic or the other. You might care to take a look at http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/camera movements.html where the movements on various cameras are described and discussed. There's even a picture of my last Kardan Color.

Remember that almost any half-decent lens is good enough for 4x5: you don't need super high resolution, and even if you had it, poor film location would render it meaningless.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Jerevan]

Okay, I am not going to argue with your firsthand experience with brittle plastic knobs, Roger! 🙂

 

[Jerevan]

This article is worth a read, especially the part about weight:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/mono-field.html

 

[venchka]

Why would you want a hulking studio camera like that? There are a zillion more portable 4x5 cameras on the market. Right now. Today. Under $1,000 all up, with all the goodies.

 

[Frontman]

The Kardan is nice, but not particularly valuable (studio-type cameras are cheap, I saw a Kardan last month sell for only $150). I would strongly consider trading for a good Technica, but I suppose you have to work with what's available.

I like large format myself, it is what cured me of the digital bug and reinvigorated my interest in film. That said, I still spend far more time with a Leica than I do my 4x5.

I use a Wista 45. It has the same features as the more expensive Linhofs (and even uses the same lens boards), but costs a fraction of the price. I found a minty black 45 SP at a flea market a few weeks ago for $350. I've thought of getting a Graflex just to see how feasible large format photography is hand-held on the streets. Unfortunately, Graflex cameras are hugely overpriced here in Japan.

One of the cool things about 4x5 is those 12000 by 8000 pixel images I get after scanning (even at a rather low 2400 DPI setting).

If you're truly interested in swapping your M gear for a 4x5 kit, I would be tempted. My kit is more extensive than the one you are looking at (Grafmatic, big and small Fuji instant backs. lots of holders, etc), considerably more valuable, and much more portable...

 

[Roger Hicks]

The Kardan is nice, but not particularly valuable (studio-type cameras are cheap, I saw a Kardan last month sell for only $150). I would strongly consider trading for a good Technica, but I suppose you have to work with what's available.

I like large format myself, it is what cured me of the digital bug and reinvigorated my interest in film. That said, I still spend far more time with a Leica than I do my 4x5.

I use a Wista 45. It has the same features as the more expensive Linhofs (and even uses the same lens boards), but costs a fraction of the price. I found a minty black 45 SP at a flea market a few weeks ago for $350. I've thought of getting a Graflex just to see how feasible large format photography is hand-held on the streets. Unfortunately, Graflex cameras are hugely overpriced here in Japan.

One of the cool things about 4x5 is those 12000 by 8000 pixel images I get after scanning (even at a rather low 2400 DPI setting).

Quite feasible: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/sgallery/g sepia 2.html. These were shot with an MPP Mk VII and the late, lamented Polaroid Sepia. Scan quality could be better: these were from when I was just learning about the web site.

EDIT: No pics when I tried the link (text only), but the site is under HEAVY revision and I hope it'll be OK soon. You can get to them via the home page (below) >galleries>sepia>hand held. Sorry!

Cheers,

R.

 

[Frontman]

Quite feasible: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/sgallery/g sepia 2.html. These were shot with an MPP Mk VII and the late, lamented Polaroid Sepia. Scan quality could be better: these were from when I was just learning about the web site.

EDIT: No pics when I tried the link (text only), but the site is under HEAVY revision and I hope it'll be OK soon.

Cheers,

R.

Thanks, I love the pics. Now to find a reasonably prices Graflex...

 

[venchka]

if you really want a monorail......

This is a very complete studio kit with a gorgeous Cambo SCX in nearly perfect condition. This camera features a very heavy duty system of movements and rotating back. Everything, including all levels and bellows are in nearly mint condition. The bellows is light tight with no damage to the folds. There is almost no wear visible anywhere on the camera body.

The lens is a stunning Rodenstock f 5.6 210mm Sironar-N MC in a Copal 1 shutter and mounted to the Board for the SCX. The glass is perfect throughout and the speeds check within range by my digital Calumet shutter tester.

This kit includes ten 4x5 film holders and a 4x5 Polaroid holder (which is great if you can find ready loads or else it's a paper weight).

Price is $550 including shipping within the continental USA.