Leica M10 or SL?

[ptpdprinter]

I have used M 4/3 cameras side by side with M9 camera, and I do not like the 1.5X crop anymore. I used to accept it, but I want to use my M lenses at their focal lengths and not as short tele lenses. I will give it all more thought. Would you replace your M10 with a CL?

When I got my Fuji XE2 I thought I was going to be able to use my Olympus OM lenses (18mm through 85mm). I must have been delusional. The crop factor rendered the 18mm a 28mm, and so on. So wide angle with adapted lenses is a non starter. I can't image trading in an M camera for a CL.

 

[Emile de Leon]

There are certain photos you simply can not take with any cam other than a rangefinder..
The ability to chop into a scene fast w/o thinking..seeing all the stuff around the actual photo area..and composing the photo within that..
I miss that..
Maybe I'll just see if I can get that M240 M-E as I like to do video too..
Main reason I would not get the M10 is no video..cant live w/o it..

 

[raid]

I never had an interest in making videos, Emile. This is not an important point for me. The M240 would only be appealing to me as being less expensive than an M10 and capable as an M camera,

 

[raid]

When I got my Fuji XE2 I thought I was going to be able to use my Olympus OM lenses (18mm through 85mm). I must have been delusional. The crop factor rendered the 18mm a 28mm, and so on. So wide angle with adapted lenses is a non starter. I can't image trading in an M camera for a CL.

Using an M 4/3 or APS camera would only appeal to me when used side by side with a full frame camera, as Robert has suggested above. It would cut down on weight, but using an M10 by itself would be lighter than M9 plus APS camera such as the CL.

 

[robert blu]

Hi Robert,


I have used M 4/3 cameras side by side with M9 camera, and I do not like the 1.5X crop anymore. I used to accept it, but I want to use my M lenses at their focal lengths and not as short tele lenses. I will give it all more thought. Would you replace your M10 with a CL?

No ! but a preowned not expensive TL2 could find a place in my bag one day, when prices will be low enough!

I like the idea to keep most of time a 28 or 35 on the M10 and want to make a detail or something else to have a medium short tele available...

 

[Calzone]

I'm afraid of the complex SL menu and focus peaking and so, I'd go for an M10.

OTL,

First came the Leica "S," then came the SL, then came the M10.

Pretty much the same camera, but packaged differently.

The "S" and SL share the same Leica menu layouts. The M10 is basically more of the same.

Be aware that when using non rangefinder lenses on a M10 you can use live view or focus peaking for focusing. So your argument is only valid if you want to live only in the realm of rangefinder lenses and you choose never to use liveview or focus peaking ever.

The SL has a zoom that is joystick movable, so I primarily use magnification to nail focus optically. Of course this is more suited for normal and longer lenses, but workd for wides as well. The SL is more like a SLR in this manner.

Know that on the newer Leica digitals you can remove features and dumb down the camera into a very basic camera. Also you can make your own custom menu. In my case I pretty much made my SL a simple and basic camera.

So with my SL I have autofocus capability, but the AF lenses are not small or compact. I have grown fond of the electronic VF'er, I also love how I can select my metering (I use spot metering, and combine that with singl point autofocus)

When I mount my 28 Cron-M the camera is basically utilized as if a fully manual film camera. No complexity at all.

I think you are mistaken that the SL is more complex than the M10. Pretty much they are the same camera just packaged differently: one is more SLR like; the other a rangefinder that is of course more compact, smaller and lighter in weight.

Lastly I have a friend who owns a SL and bought a M10. He also says that the cameras are remarkably similar, and that he wished he did not buy the M10.

There is a Leica three lens "S" kit in a Pelican Case that gets loaned out. My friend "Mike The Skinny Hipster" knocked on a door on the Lower Eastside and was handed this kit on loan that went down like a 1970's drug deal.

When Mike got the kit home he called me to come up, and know that Mike lives in the apartment right above mine. The same layout as my SL I would learn, pretty much all of the same.

If your have the most recent issues of Leica S magazine or LFI the work from Mike using this "S" kit is published in these two issues.

Cal

 

[Mackinaw]

.....I have used M 4/3 cameras side by side with M9 camera, and I do not like the 1.5X crop anymore. I used to accept it, but I want to use my M lenses at their focal lengths and not as short tele lenses.....

I recently had the same thought. I have a 4/3rds Olympus OM-D that I'll soon be selling. Nice camera, but the small sensor just doesn't do it. I just bought a Canon EOS RP. Full-frame sensor and will (with adaptors) take almost any old 35mm lens I have.

But I will be keeping my M240. I'll always like focusing with a real rangefinder.

Jim B.

 

[Calzone]

No ! but a preowned not expensive TL2 could find a place in my bag one day, when prices will be low enough!

I like the idea to keep most of time a 28 or 35 on the M10 and want to make a detail or something else to have a medium short tele available...

Robert,

Since I own a SL I already own mucho adapters: M-L, L-M, Nikon F-mount to M.

I bought a CL to convert my full frame normal lenses into short telephotos.

50 Lux-R "E60" on the CL is remarkable taking a great lens and making it perfect by exploiting the "sweet spot." Pretty much this is a Leica lens on steroids. Mucho wonderful.

I own a 58/1.2 Noct-Nikkor and on my CL it becomes an 87mm F1.2. Brutal... BTW I figured out how to adopt and use the Noctilux F1.2 profile with my Noct-Nikkor by stacking adapters.

Also that 28mm becomes a very cool compact 42mm on a crop sensor.

Cal

 

[raid]

No ! but a preowned not expensive TL2 could find a place in my bag one day, when prices will be low enough!

I like the idea to keep most of time a 28 or 35 on the M10 and want to make a detail or something else to have a medium short tele available...

Tell me more about the TL2. Why is it good in your eyes? Keeping the 28 or 35 on your M10 makes sense to me.

 

[Calzone]

I don’t own any R lenses. The SL has an amazing viewfinder. I would never have been interested a bit in the SL had I not seen and held an SL in my hands.

Raid,

"R" glass on an SL is great.

Nikon Noct-Nikkor is also great.

The SL supports a more SLR like experience for me.

Although bulky lenses and heavy autofocus may or may not be in your shooting.

If you like shooting long lenses the SL zooms offer superb image stabilization.

Cal

 

[raid]

Hi Cal,
I am not a professional photographer, as you know. I used to enjoy using long lenses, such as the 500mm/4.5L and the Nikkor 500mm/5 mirror lens, but I am now more interested in small lenses.

Thanks for your experience based feedback on the SL.

 

[Calzone]

Hi Cal,
I am not a professional photographer, as you know. I used to enjoy using long lenses, such as the 500mm/4.5L and the Nikkor 500mm/5 mirror lens, but I am now more interested in small lenses.

Thanks for your experience based feedback on the SL.

Raid,

I'm like you: a guy with a day-job.

We are serious photographers.

BTW those are cool long lenses.

For small lenses stick with the rangefinder. I am fond of my SL because I still love SLR's and have mucho legacy SLR glass.

It is a hard cut for me though because I still love both rangefinders and SLR's.

Not to go too far off topic but for small cameras with M-glass Robert's idea of a cropped sensor Leica used for no money is interesting. Although I bought a CL new it is a very fast shooter, and so compact.

I love my 28 Cron on the CL, and the 42mm FOV makes it a lot like the original film CL with a 40 Cron.

Cal

 

[Darthfeeble]

Have you handled both? Which fits you the best? That's the one to get. Of course if both do then you have a dilemma which can be cured by getting the both of them.......

 

[raid]

Raid,

I'm like you: a guy with a day-job.

We are serious photographers.

BTW those are cool long lenses.

For small lenses stick with the rangefinder. I am fond of my SL because I still love SLR's and have mucho legacy SLR glass.

It is a hard cut for me though because I still love both rangefinders and SLR's.

Not to go too far off topic but for small cameras with M-glass Robert's idea of a cropped sensor Leica used for no money is interesting. Although I bought a CL new it is a very fast shooter, and so compact.

I love my 28 Cron on the CL, and the 42mm FOV makes it a lot like the original film CL with a 40 Cron.

Cal

My M8 and M9 will not last forever, Cal, and I am planning to get a camera that can replace them one day. Either of the cameras can fail any day, but they may last a few more years. I need a full frame sensor camera to replace the M9 one day. If I had an M10, then adding a CL sounds fine to me.

 

[raid]

Have you handled both? Which fits you the best? That's the one to get. Of course if both do then you have a dilemma which can be cured by getting the both of them.......

Robert has an M10, which I have seen in his hands. It looks like a Leica film M camera. Handling it should be like handling the M9, most likely. I have held in my hands an SL, and it feels heavier and it is larger than the M9. Getting both cameras costs too much money. Either one should be reliable enough to be used by itself without the other.

 

[Darthfeeble]

I didn't really think the second option was too viable.......

 

[Calzone]

My M8 and M9 will not last forever, Cal, and I am planning to get a camera that can replace them one day. Either of the cameras can fail any day, but they may last a few more years. I need a full frame sensor camera to replace the M9 one day. If I had an M10, then adding a CL sounds fine to me.

Raid,

Forward thinking I understand.

I have a MM that I bought new and had Leica replace the sensor and at that time it got overhauled. Pretty much otherwise no problems. My hope is this camera could be good-to-go for perhaps another decade. Perhaps more.

Anyways for me still a great camera, no remorse. I have three good batteries.

Know it is best to not fully deplete the batteries, nor is it best to fully charge them. Always store them with a charge. If you can charge to 80% to preserve longest battery life.

Interesting to note that someone I know has a BMW electric car and they recommend charging to only 80%, unless you need the extended range of a full charge.

My SL is getting up there with age. The Leica charger has an LED that indicates 80% charge if I choose to go the extended battery life route.

Perhaps I'm suggesting the achillies heal of the older Leica digitals will be having working batteries.

Also know that I used the hell out of my Monochrom. The edges are silvering where my hands have worn away the anodize, and before I sent my MM to Leica for sensor replacement my covering was worn smooth in some places from gripping the camera.

Your cameras might surprise you... but I also respectfully understand that sudden death also is a possibility.

Good to be hedged.

Cal

 

[Bill Blackwell]

If you were to get another Leica camera, and if the choice for you is to pick between a M10 or SL, which camera would you get and why? ...

Here's another "SL" option for you:
Likely framework for the SL-2!
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._s1rbody_lumix_dc_s1r_mirrorless_digital.html

 

[robert blu]

Tell me more about the TL2. Why is it good in your eyes? Keeping the 28 or 35 on your M10 makes sense to me.

From a rational point of view I think the CL is a better choice, modern and more similar to a camera!

The T series, now the TL2 is interesting for me as concept, the interface makes it easy to be used by my wife as well, she's not very familiar with multipage menus.

My idea is to keep it beside the M10 (when traveling) for the few times when I want to photograph a detail (and 28 or 35 too wide) or a portrait with only face in it. With a 50 it would be a 75...

 

[Emile de Leon]

The SL is weather sealed..
I would love to have a well sealed digital cam like that..