Leica M10-R Photos...
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keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
The first photos of this camera (the silver camera in the post) came up in January, though now it looks like it won't have the traditional top plate script. I wonder if the release has been noticeably delayed by Covid?
newsgrunt
Well-known
a screen that's not flush with the back ? um, no.
arseniii
Well-known
LOL, there is a Leica M-D for a "flush with the back" aficionados
I am wondering with 40Mp does it imply that one has to use higher shutter speeds? It seems to me that even a little shake of the camera will create a motion blur on such a high res sensor. 18Mp of M9 IMHO can be used almost the same way as film. 1/30 or 1/15 of the second is still doable. I doubt it'll be the case when the sensor that spits out 47Mp
jsrockit
Moderator
It can be used exactly the same way as long as you print the same size as you print your M9 photos.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
If using longer exposure times has not been found a problem by SL2, Q2, and all those other users of 40+ Mpixel FF cameras that are around these days, I doubt it will be a problem with an M with a 47MP sensor either.
Of course, if you want the absolute max resolution out of any camera and lens, stabilizing the camera so that it has no movement at all is the only way to go. This is why I use a tripod so much of the time.
😀
G
"My sharpest lens is a sturdy tripod."
Canyongazer
Canyongazer
Agreed, Godfrey.
I've followed the "Is there a reason I shouldn't/can't use a tripod in this situation?"
If the answer is "no" then tripod it is.
I've followed the "Is there a reason I shouldn't/can't use a tripod in this situation?"
If the answer is "no" then tripod it is.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Yes! 🙂
Usually, what I've found is that situations where you shouldn't/can't use a tripod also tend to be the situations for maximum resolution isn't really a huge priority for the photographs you are going to make either.
BTW: I've gotten some excellent photos at 1/15 second using my Hasselblad 907x hand-held, another 50 Mpixel camera. I wouldn't call them the max that the camera and lens can produce, but the photos I made that way didn't need the max to be successful photos.
G
Calzone
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I own a SL2 as well as a SL.
To best exploit the 47.3 MP sensor IBIS would be best.
The question for me is if IBIS will be utilized on the M10R?
Also to fully exploit the sensor, do you have a budget for modern M-glass.
Also from experience the SL2 crushes my SL. This camera is mucho more speedy. The 47.3 MP along with IBIS is best exploited with the native glass.
Of the native glass I own the APO 35 Cron and the massive 50 Lux-SL. The APO glass is amazing.
Meanwhile I still love my primitive M9M warts and all. Know that I print 20x30 image size on 24x36 on my Epson 7800 using Piezography, and If I had a bigger printer I would do so.
Cal
To best exploit the 47.3 MP sensor IBIS would be best.
The question for me is if IBIS will be utilized on the M10R?
Also to fully exploit the sensor, do you have a budget for modern M-glass.
Also from experience the SL2 crushes my SL. This camera is mucho more speedy. The 47.3 MP along with IBIS is best exploited with the native glass.
Of the native glass I own the APO 35 Cron and the massive 50 Lux-SL. The APO glass is amazing.
Meanwhile I still love my primitive M9M warts and all. Know that I print 20x30 image size on 24x36 on my Epson 7800 using Piezography, and If I had a bigger printer I would do so.
Cal
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
I highly doubt there is room in the M10 chassis for IBIS. Maybe one day in a future M series, when batteries and stabilization technology can be made smaller.
People have been arguing about high resolution sharpness and camera shake since at least the D800 in 2012. Personally I think the whole thing is blown a bit out of proportion.
jsrockit
Moderator
And it is...
Calzone
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John,
I don't know about this, or if I agree totally.
In comparing my SL against my SL2, I already stated that the SL2 kinda crushes the SL in speed, but also IBIS is a big deal.
About 4-5 years ago I borrowed a 24-90-L Zoom from Leica Camera to cover NYC Fashion Week. I was suppose to only have possession of the lens for about two weeks, but you know me I kept it for about 3 weeks.
One night I performed a bunch of what I would call "Circus Shots" meaning some purposely sloppy shooting where I randomely took quick shots under horible conditions of shooting in the Bowelry at night with a disregard to IQ, just being playful.
When I downloaded the files captured by my SL without IBIS I was mucho surprised that I had tack sharp good images that even exploited 65mm FOV and subjects like a menu displayed in a window from across a dim and dark street.
So the IS was in the lens, and I know that IS in the lens can offer higher performance than IBIS because it is most optimized specifically for that lens.
I was baffled; I'm not a zoom lens kinda guy; but because of the low light capability I considered maybe getting this lens just for night shooting.
Know that these files were at 1/8 and 1/10 second using a slow lens. I was so sloppy and careless that if I remember correctly that I left the ISO at 400 so film speed was not my friend.
Ask me if I'm glad that my SL2 has IBIS. Ask me if it makes my SL2 a superior camera over my SL. Think about my likely answer.
Also I'm not sure IBIS is an impossibility in a M10R. Leica is mighty clever. They really surprised me with the SL2. What takes things to yet another level are the APO Crons for L-mount. These lenses are future proofed to perhaps 100MP to 120MP sensors.
A Leica rep once told me that the lens on a Leica "Q" is "future proofed" to an 80 MP sensor.
Time to consider how to exploit all the resolution, and to me and for me it is with modern glass optimized and native for the body/lens mount. In the past this might not have been true: the Nikon D-800 is a long time ago and the glass has advanced mucho.
Mark Cuban once said, "Go big or don't go." I would argue that only going with a high MP count sensor would only be a baby step, and seeing how Leica performed with the SL2, I believe Leica would/might not go in baby steps, especially since the next Q3 likely will be 60 or 80 MP.
Cal
Huss
Veteran
That does look strange. I'm wondering if it is a protective cover and/or it has not been finalized.
Tim Gray
Well-known
M10M screen looks the same - not flush.
I have no problem with 40+ MP on my Sony with slow shutter speeds. Granted IBIS helps a ton, but I’ve not had a real issue with the M10M either. Sure, there can be some blur in some shots with slow shutter speeds handheld, but how sharp were my shots on Tri-X at 1/15s? And that’s ignoring all the shots where I didn’t hold still enough. In my opinion, the ability to get sharp shots with these digital cameras is a non-issue. Take a burst of photos and choose the sharp one. Bump the ISO up a notch. Shoot like you always did and don’t worry about it. With the M10M, the sensor soldiers on even when I literally can’t focus with the RF patch.
I’ve also not had a real issue with focus accuracy of the RF. Well, yes I have, with 2 lenses. Leica 90/2 and a Konica 90/2.8. I did not have issues with them with film though I never shot with either of them much. The Leica 90 can be hard to see when it’s in focus wide open. The patch looks accurate, but there’s just enough wiggle room either way that I can be off a tiny bit. Live view helps, or maybe a magnifier. I wouldn’t be surprised if the low resolution of Tri-X masked this issue completely. The Konica is mega off and probably needs to be adjusted. However no real issues wide open with the 50/1.4 ASPH, ZM Sonnar, or even the 135/3.4.
You can always downsize images to 24 MP if you want.
Calzone
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Tim,
Thanks for your post and insights.
As you point out ISIS is not manditory.
Good luck with the M10M. I still love my M9M, warts and all, it is still a great camera.
Cal
arseniii
Well-known
From what I have seen online 40+ Mp cameras DO have issues at the slower shutter speeds. You can see much more "shake" in the images of say Greg Williams when he switched to Q2. There are others on Flickr too. MF like cameras also fall into the subject.
Of course Sony's IBIS takes care of it. 😛
As for M10M it's not really an issue as you can crank up your iso to 10000 and shoot at 1/500 without any loss in IQ. It's just a different workflow altogether.
jsrockit
Moderator
Cal, I wasn't talking about IBIS at all. Forget IBIS for a minute. I was saying that needing to use different shutter speeds simply because you moved from 18mp to 47mp is not true... unless you want to take full advantage of the 47mp. If you are happy with your prints from the 18mp and want to continue to use the same shutter speeds, you can simply print the 47mp images at the same size you always used. There would be no difference.
I fully understand IBIS...I have it in one of my Fujis (X-H1) and for static subjects, it works wonderful at very low shutter speeds. It certainly can help when trying to use high res sensors.
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
The problem that the M-mount faces over other, uh, "mirrorless" mounts is that the sensor lies at the back of the camera where the film plane used to be. This means there is virtually no space behind the sensor because of the LCD screen. The lens mount of the M10 series is moved forward a few millimeters, and the screen is set back a few millimeters, to compensate for this. If the camera were M240-sized, I think IBIS might be more possible, but I doubt Leica wants to return to the fatter cameras after slimming down.
jsrockit
Moderator
The Leica top plate script will be for the extra cost
M10-RP Professional
followed by the M-10RI infrared
followed by the limited edition infrared M-10-RIP
once the the M11 arrives.
🙂
Be Safe,
Stephen
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