Leica M4 in 2021?

[splitimageview]

Any issues regarding manufacture of individual models when they were first produced is pretty much irrelevant, as of this late date; it's not even a new century anymore. 🙂

What's more important is how well it has been cared for (or not) during its life and how recently it has been serviced.

Pick the M4 variation you prefer and get one that's been serviced by one of the premier techs, or acquire one and have it serviced. You'll be good to go for decades.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

I don't personally like the later frame lines that came in during the M4-P, but many people do. That should probably be your biggest determining factor. M4 has a slightly less fussy rangefinder patch

I sold my MP and went back to the M4 because of the busy framelines

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

Well, I own one and I like them and I've had other models for decades and all I can say is that there is no way of knowing what state they are in until something goes wrong and it gets sorted out and you have a short chat with the technician. Only then will you know about what you bought; after all's said and done we are talking about a second hand camera that might be anything up to 55 years old. A lot can happen in that time...

So for peace of mind I suggest you buy from a dealer and get one with a guarantee and use it.


Regards, David

 

[Glenn2]

In the late sixties I made a shift from Canon SLRs to Leica. A friendly person placed an M2 in my hands and I was hooked. Couldn’t find an M2 for myself but started out with an M3, soon came a second body so you could shoot colour and B&W. Found I wanted the wider .72 finder so eventually ended up with a pair of M4 bodies which got used on my first trip to India in 1970.
One of the pair is even a Leitz Canada assembled camera with early finder mask. I used the same camera on my last trip to India in 2012, along with a .Fuji X-100. Wanted to get an M9 to keep the M4 company, but the $$$ put me off. After all the M4 had only set me back $400 in the sixties. Not too shabby when you’re still using the same camera after many decades. What’s the experience of useful life of digital floosies?

Have always considered the M4 the perfect film Leica, no take up spool to drop while doing a hasty reload and rewinding film lots easier. With no meter less to need serviced and hand held meters are my preference for street people photos. Nothing signals intentions like camera to eye as lens and shutter are fiddled with.

Still have the same cameras after all these years and they’re still going strong. They have only had one CLA and that was done by a pro. Have long suspected that lack of use and lubricants hardening leads to needing more regular CLAs.
Need to buy a couple bricks of film for some preventative maintenance. 😎

M4s forever 🙂

Glenn

 

[xayraa33]

Take each camera on a single individual basis .... model M4 or M4-2 or M4-P does not matter much now after 40 to 53 years since these came to market. If any of these is in good shape and had recent pro camera tech CLAs then they are all equally good.

Just my 2 cents from owning and using all these models... plus Leica M3s and M2s.

 

[hap]

I guess the frameline issue is a matter of preference. I like the M4P finder, even though I have an M3. It's nice not to have to fuss with finders. For those of you who like Nikon RF cams , I have an SP and the framelines a far more distracting than any M plus it has a separate window for 35 and 28mm Also have a Canon 7s and it's frame lines aren't a problem.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

The curtain dislodges from the metallic band at its end. Apparently something was changed from the M2 in the type of attachment and it was a bad idea.
Mine failed that way. DAG repaired it (replaced the curtains with new ones) and told me that any M4 have high chances to fail that way. Since then, I've seen people asking about such a failure once or twice on the web.

In itself, it's not a reason not to buy an M4 which is an excellent camera, but the idea of a model being completely immune to very expensive failures sounds kind of wrong to me....

Thank you for the additional information, it's much appreciated.
Cheers,
Brett

 

[meandihagee]

Big thanks for all your input.

Should I expect washed up framelines and patch on M4 I guess, as opposed to the others?

 

[sanmich]

I bought an M4 in 2020 and it's a great camera. However, I'm preparing to sell it and keep my M4-P because I use flash quite a bit. The M4 feels noticeably nicer, both the advance and the overall weight/finish so it's a bit sad to part with.

Installing a hot shoe on an M4 may not be a big issue...

 

[splitimageview]

Big thanks for all your input.

Should I expect washed up framelines and patch on M4 I guess, as opposed to the others?

No reason to ‘expect’ that; just make sure to inspect closely.

 

[David Hughes]

Thinking about hot shoes, it's feasible but at a cost in time and money. If you are an occasional flash user then one of those 3mm to a basic hot shoe thingies would be the answer. Most collectors usually end up with a few; who knows? someone might even post you one...


Regards, David

 

[David Hughes]

Big thanks for all your input.

Should I expect washed up framelines and patch on M4 I guess, as opposed to the others?

I hope this doesn't sound rude but you are bringing too much reason and rationale to this decision; it doesn't pay with Leicas*. You'd like the M4 so go and buy one with your eyes open. Then you can start worrying about the lens and other bits and pieces. I hope your pockets are deep ;-)

So I'll wish you luck getting one and look forward to your first samples here.

Regards, David

* I'm guessing that you are not buying it primarily to take photos because these days you can do that with a smart phone. So it must be for the pleasure of owning and using the thing, in which case you should follow your heart as the saying goes...

 

[jordan.dickinson]

the M4 is an awesome camera. I wouldn't hesitate on buying one.

 

[ktmrider]

I found a mint black chrome 50th anniversary M4 and purchased it in Oct, 2020. Depending on the way the wind blows, the M2 or M4 are my favorite M film cameras. Do not see any reason at all to purchased a MA or MP.

Get the M4.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

The M4 is a great camera with a known issue of catastrophic shutter curtain failure. ...

Well, that's news to me. The M4 shutter is exactly the same as that of the M2/3 (AFAIK, they are completely interchangeable). The M4-2/P cameras replace certain brass gears with steel in order to accommodate the winder mechanism - but that's it!

Minor differences can be found in the rangefinder (most M4-2/P cameras lack the RF condenser). M4 and M4-2 cameras have four framelines while M4-P cameras have six framelines.

Regardless of which M4 model you choose, a fresh CLA can take it out as much as 20+ years trouble-free. The trade off - engraving notwithstanding - is that the M4 has a self-timer and the M4-2/P replace it with a winder mechanism. There are some other very minor differences between them, but that about sums it up. Whichever one you chose (given a fresh CLA), you can't go wrong.

 

[PKR]

My camera repairman tells me, M4 = no plastic gears. It seems, plastic gears are found in later M cameras. His advice was to buy an M4 over any later editions. I guess, he's seen problems with more recent M cameras related to the plastic gears found in them.

Im just passing along his advice to me. I'm no expert on the inner workings of any camera.

 

[Freakscene]

Well, that's news to me. The M4 shutter is exactly the same as that of the M2/3 (AFAIK, they are completely interchangeable).

The way the curtain is attached to the roller is different. The rest of the shutter may be the same and interchangeable, but they do come apart much more often than M3s or M2s.

Marty

 

[David Murphy]

I've briefly owned a couple of M4's and I can attest they are remarkably nice and practical cameras. The two I had worked perfectly despite being about 35 years old. I personally prefer the M2/M3, but that's the just me - being an old-school classic camera type. If I needed a reliable M lens shooter and favored something newer than an M3, I'd not hesitate a second to buy an M4.